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    Poll: Who do you think will win the World Tour Grand Finals 2018?

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    1. Top | #281
      Atas Newton is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      Here is my crazy theory - Mima Ito has given He Zhuoja more opportunity as she is probably the Mima Ito clone.
      do people legit believe in Evil Communist China, where they breed special table tennis people to copy other players? So an actual person with their whole life of hopes and dreams are sacrificed in an attempt to mimic someone else and thus strengthen the main team? That's just beyond ridiculous. I remember Li Xiaoxia playing against a male opponent in preparation for Rio 2016 because his style resembled that of her likely opponent. That's about how far it goes, this whole "they clone rivals to study them" myth. I especially like how people view CNT as being too methodical, perhaps even unimaginative in their training, the idea of them "studying their opponents by watching videos of them" is often brought up. Well duh, if you don't study your opposition, you're a bad coach/player, CNT or not. Meanwhile, no one says anything when Mima's coach shows up with like 900 pages manuscript detailing the tactics and statistics. Quit this bullshit, people.
      the commentator lists Grand Slam winners, calls JOW John Oev Wellner, LGL Louis Goodland (not kidding)

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    3. Top | #282
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      Is it a disadvantage for Calderano and Mizutani to be playing 2 matches in one day with only 3-4 hours break(I think). Calderano lost 0-4 and Mizutani is behind 0-3

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    5. Top | #283
      jawien is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by yoass View Post
      Just let go of that us vs them mentality already. The very notions of race and nations are delusional ones, ruthlessly exploited in machiavellan ways to create artificial conflict and to take advantage of the strife that ensues as enraged factions mobilize against one another.

      Don’t embrace these notions created to manipulate you. Free yourself of them, and then seek joy in the merit of achievement rather then glee over the humiliation of The Enemy.

      For all practical purposes, there’s no such thing as China. There are just people playing.
      Quote Originally Posted by RidTheKid View Post
      I've been here my friend, watching since the 80's China is certainly the greatest TT nation, and by a huge margin. I'm Swedish but I never root for a Swede in these tournaments because I don't like their playing style. Back when JO played it was a different situation. I'm more passionate about great TT than being a patriot.
      Guys you try to see more than there's to it. The China vs the Rest of the World rivalry has a long tradition - in a positive way. Don't CNT players perceive World Tour events sort of the same way, like "loosing to other CNT member is ok, but against the foreigner is not so much"?

      We are talking about a very specific Table Tennis world, and there are nuances to be recognized.

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    7. Top | #284
      Atas Newton is offline
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      Mizutani also clearly tilted after those let calls. Ideally, if the receiving player doesn't object, ref shouldn't even make the call. The rules are a bit too strict there.

    8. Top | #285
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      Yes but you don't see chinese fans here write "YES!!!!! LGY!!!! Another japanese is out! Just one japanese left!!!!"

      The chinese are incredibly humble both in success and in defeat.

      Quote Originally Posted by jawien View Post
      Guys you try to see more than there's to it. The China vs the Rest of the World rivalry has a long tradition - in a positive way. Don't CNT players perceive World Tour events sort of the same way, like "loosing to other CNT member is ok, but against the foreigner is not so much"?

      We are talking about a very specific Table Tennis world, and there are nuances to be recognized.

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    10. Top | #286
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      Quote Originally Posted by jawien View Post
      Guys you try to see more than there's to it. The China vs the Rest of the World rivalry has a long tradition - in a positive way. Don't CNT players perceive World Tour events sort of the same way, like "loosing to other CNT member is ok, but against the foreigner is not so much"?

      We are talking about a very specific Table Tennis world, and there are nuances to be recognized.
      I was thinking about it, and in many interviews players talk about this China, Europeans, Japanese, rest of the world stuff and we're all fine with, I honestly don't see a problem, specially cause when CNT (players) talk, many times we see it being about the pride of China, not the proud of ML or DN. So why don't fans can't be the same? I see players as individuals as much as a country representatives, and well sometimes I just want to see things buuurn for the fun of randomness

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    12. Top | #287
      jawien is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by RidTheKid View Post
      Yes but you don't see chinese fans here write "YES!!!!! LGY!!!! Another japanese is out! Just one japanese left!!!!"

      The chinese are incredibly humble both in success and in defeat.
      Maybe because Japan (with all due respect) hasn't been a Goliath for the past decades ...

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    14. Top | #288
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      Quote Originally Posted by Atas Newton View Post
      do people legit believe in Evil Communist China, where they breed special table tennis people to copy other players? So an actual person with their whole life of hopes and dreams are sacrificed in an attempt to mimic someone else and thus strengthen the main team? That's just beyond ridiculous. I remember Li Xiaoxia playing against a male opponent in preparation for Rio 2016 because his style resembled that of her likely opponent. That's about how far it goes, this whole "they clone rivals to study them" myth. I especially like how people view CNT as being too methodical, perhaps even unimaginative in their training, the idea of them "studying their opponents by watching videos of them" is often brought up. Well duh, if you don't study your opposition, you're a bad coach/player, CNT or not. Meanwhile, no one says anything when Mima's coach shows up with like 900 pages manuscript detailing the tactics and statistics. Quit this bullshit, people.

      This is a funny post. If I call Hao Shuai "the Timo Boll clone", does that mean Hao Shuai was raised and bred and gave up his whole life to play like Timo Boll in order to support the main team?

      Since you described what the "cloning" process is like, where a player simply mimics an opponent, it makes sense that He Zhuoja has now been practicing more against first team players if she is the practice partner that mimics Ito's style.

      I do realize though that the best way to start an argument is to pretend that other people are saying stupid things.
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    15. Top | #289
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      World Tour Grand Finals 2018

      Quote Originally Posted by jawien View Post
      The China vs the Rest of the World rivalry has a long tradition - in a positive way.
      As I said before, don’t just naively keep embracing the dichotomies and enmities bestowed upon you. You’re being played and exploited through them. Don’t be that tool.
      Last edited by yoass; 12-15-2018 at 02:07 PM.

    16. Top | #290
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      Quote Originally Posted by RidTheKid View Post
      Yes but you don't see chinese fans here write "YES!!!!! LGY!!!! Another japanese is out! Just one japanese left!!!!"

      The chinese are incredibly humble both in success and in defeat.
      It's really funny how far some people will go to pretend that the world is not a certain way.

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    18. Top | #291
      Atas Newton is offline
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      Lin Gaoyuan wins the right to get destroyed by Harimoto tomorrow :-)

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    20. Top | #292
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      Quote Originally Posted by yoass View Post
      As I said before, don’t just naively keep embracing the dichotomies and enmities bestowed upon you. You’re being played and exploited through them. Don’t be that tool.
      No one is being played and exploited. We are all intelligent teens/adults who know how to think. We come here to have fun. Soccer teams have fans. Players have fans. National teams have fans. Corporations have fans. No one is naively embracing anything just because they do not agree with you.

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    22. Top | #293
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      And still we have as many japanese as chinese left in the male part of this event


      Quote Originally Posted by jawien View Post
      Maybe because Japan (with all due respect) hasn't been a Goliath for the past decades ...

    23. Top | #294
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      Quote Originally Posted by Atas Newton View Post
      do people legit believe in Evil Communist China, where they breed special table tennis people to copy other players? So an actual person with their whole life of hopes and dreams are sacrificed in an attempt to mimic someone else and thus strengthen the main team? That's just beyond ridiculous. I remember Li Xiaoxia playing against a male opponent in preparation for Rio 2016 because his style resembled that of her likely opponent. That's about how far it goes, this whole "they clone rivals to study them" myth. I especially like how people view CNT as being too methodical, perhaps even unimaginative in their training, the idea of them "studying their opponents by watching videos of them" is often brought up. Well duh, if you don't study your opposition, you're a bad coach/player, CNT or not. Meanwhile, no one says anything when Mima's coach shows up with like 900 pages manuscript detailing the tactics and statistics. Quit this bullshit, people.

      The first thing is that it is not a myth:

      http://www.masatenisi.org/english/secrets.htm

      The second thing is that it is no different from having someone play a certain style so that you can practice against it, which you have pointed out. What I don't get is that I would never pretend you are an idiot when discussing table tennis. Why are you pretending I am?

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    25. Top | #295
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      Wrong. I know what kind of world I want to live in. Are you of the opinion that you think dividing people is a good idea? Then move along.

      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      It's really funny how far some people will go to pretend that the world is not a certain way.

    26. Top | #296
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      This is a funny post. If I call Hao Shuai "the Timo Boll clone", does that mean Hao Shuai was raised and bred and gave up his whole life to play like Timo Boll in order to support the main team?

      Since you described what the "cloning" process is like, where a player simply mimics an opponent, it makes sense that He Zhuoja has now been practicing more against first team players if she is the practice partner that mimics Ito's style.

      I do realize though that the best way to start an argument is to pretend that other people are saying stupid things.
      not true. I think it's clear from the way I worded it that I used a hyperbole to describe your position. Obviously, they don't "breed" no one. Your quite mild suggestion that someone adjustst their game to copy someone - that's what I'm calling you out on. Because when you look into details it becomes evident that you're far better off training against someone using their "native" style so to speak, than against someone pretending to be someone else. You know as well as I do, as a table tennis player, that you don't choose the style - the style chooses you. Try forcing a change and you're a couple tiers below your true level. What good are such practice partners? Besides, I don't even agree that He Zhuojia plays Ito's game. She's happy to initiate and maintain top-spin rallies where Mima goes for the kill.

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    28. Top | #297
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      Quote Originally Posted by PatriciaPinheiro View Post
      I was thinking about it, and in many interviews players talk about this China, Europeans, Japanese, rest of the world stuff and we're all fine with, I honestly don't see a problem, specially cause when CNT (players) talk, many times we see it being about the pride of China, not the proud of ML or DN. So why don't fans can't be the same? I see players as individuals as much as a country representatives, and well sometimes I just want to see things buuurn for the fun of randomness

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    29. Top | #298
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      Quote Originally Posted by RidTheKid View Post
      And still we have as many japanese as chinese left in the male part of this event
      Oh well the Goliaths loose sometimes too ... don't they ...

    30. Top | #299
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      Once upon a time we walked on our knuckles.

      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      IT's called "The Modern Denial of Human Nature".

    31. Top | #300
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      If you believe in what the Bible tells you

      Quote Originally Posted by jawien View Post
      Oh well the Goliaths loose sometimes too ... don't they ...

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