2018 World Junior U18 TT Championships

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You two might have just different definition of racism. Maybe the problem lies there.

Danny, You are literally writing:

All i said was that it's not impressive for a Chinese player to have a winrate like Shi Xunyao did...

In other words"

"It is not impressive to have high winrate like Shi Xunyao, because other Chinese players also have a winrate like that".

If You are not racist then it means that for You 97% winrate is not a big deal since You believe that many other players have winrate close to that. (and it doesn't matter if they are Chinese or not). Although it would is very easy to verify how ridiculous that believe is.

Unfortunatelly You have also written:

Yes if it was a non chinese then i would say it's impressive

and that makes You a racist if we define racism like this:

"The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."

You just think that when Chinese person has the same results as non-Chinese it is nothing special...so Chinese are just superior in Your eyes. Just like it wouldn't be impressive for cheetah to run 100m under 10s.

But...Oxford dictionary also defines "racism" as:

"Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."

and in that case Dany is not racist at all. It also looks like Dany was thinking about this definition all the time while Tony was thinking about the previous one.

Also, being sick and tired of the chinese dominance is one thing and just hating chinese people is another. If i was the latter then you could call me a racist.

So...can we close this now ? Your definitions of racism are just different and no one here is wrong since even Oxford dictionary has few definitions of racism that are entirely consistent (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism)
 
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You two might have just different definition of racism. Maybe the problem lies there.

Danny, You are literally writing:



In other words"

"It is not impressive to have high winrate like Shi Xunyao, because other Chinese players also have a winrate like that".

If You are not racist then it means that for You 97% winrate is not a big deal since You believe that many other players have winrate close to that. (and it doesn't matter if they are Chinese or not). Although it would is very easy to verify how ridiculous that believe is.

Unfortunatelly You have also written:



and that makes You a racist if we define racism like this:

"The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."

You just think that when Chinese person has the same results as non-Chinese it is nothing special...so Chinese are just superior in Your eyes. Just like it wouldn't be impressive for cheetah to run 100m under 10s.

But...Oxford dictionary also defines "racism" as:

"Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."

and in that case Dany is not racist at all. It also looks like Dany was thinking about this definition all the time while Tony was thinking about the previous one.



So...can we close this now ? Your definitions of racism are just different and no one here is wrong since even Oxford dictionary has few definitions of racism that are entirely consistent (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism)

so lets change it to another sport and another race

oh, so there is a new kid in a block in the NBA
he is black, and that is nothing special as all black kids can play good basketball
if it was a non black, then I will be impressed, so all blacks play good ball

I am not impressed with that kid to have a 97% accuracy rate, since all blacks have the same accuracy rate

Its so boring watching blacks vs blacks in basketball.

If blacks win the match or gold medal, they are not as happy as non blacks winning

Racist much?
if not, this sure is racial discrimination and boarder racism as per my earlier statement

sportsmanship with respect will see beyond the colour of the new kid in the block and just give praise when its deserved and not discredit him or measure his performance due to his skin colour
 
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stating the obvious and facts is not racism...but, if you are saying that the fact blacks tend to be better at basketball and chinese better at table tennis is racism, well, i'm racist too, and I dont see any wrong with that.
 
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stating the obvious and facts is not racism...but, if you are saying that the fact blacks tend to be better at basketball and chinese better at table tennis is racism, well, i'm racist too, and I dont see any wrong with that.

it is beyond this, as you are talking in general and I agree with you

but the person has gone deeper and pinpoint individual names (Shi) and classifying the result/performance based on her race. So if Shi was a different race, this person will very likely respond differently
so Shi is a victim of racism?
 
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Shi was a victim of the sistem that makes chinese the best, as all the other chinese players, you can see it in the finals, they win, it's as it is normal, for people is normal chinese winning. When a non chinese wins, is like the end of the world, a big thing. I dont think it's about racism. or devaluating the chinese wins, its just because, they win so much, and they are so much better, that when a non chinese win, people give it more credi.
 
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Shi was a victim of the sistem that makes chinese the best, as all the other chinese players, you can see it in the finals, they win, it's as it is normal, for people is normal chinese winning. When a non chinese wins, is like the end of the world, a big thing. I dont think it's about racism. or devaluating the chinese wins, its just because, they win so much, and they are so much better, that when a non chinese win, people give it more credi.
Exactly. You described what i was trying to say perfectly.
 
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Shi was a victim of the sistem that makes chinese the best, as all the other chinese players, you can see it in the finals, they win, it's as it is normal, for people is normal chinese winning. When a non chinese wins, is like the end of the world, a big thing. I dont think it's about racism. or devaluating the chinese wins, its just because, they win so much, and they are so much better, that when a non chinese win, people give it more credi.

I get what you are saying, but I disagree with you that Shi is a victim of the system. So many non Chinese wish to take part in such system. So many have became top 10 level based on such system, this includes your Taiwanese, Japanese, Korean, Germans, Egyptians etc

its interesting that you get some people that see race and then have a direction of thought link to it.

Then you get others that don't see race and just see the athlete and his/her ability

then you get those who sees race and if the same race is playing against each other - it is boring to watch.

I really hope those who think Chinese vs Chinese is boring, should turn off the TV and stop watching table tennis when 2 Chinese is on. They don't deserve to witness good table tennis between Chinese vs Chinese players
 
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sportsmanship with respect will see beyond the colour of the new kid in the block and just give praise when its deserved and not discredit him or measure his performance due to his skin colour

I totally agree with that, so You can say that Danny is not respectful enough for the great player, but if his definition of racism is what I wrote previously then he will not see himself as racist. And whether You like it or not, it is a definition, so it can't be "wrong". Unless there is some more important dictionary that stands above the oxford's one.

It doesn't matter what race You give as an example and what sport You will use. He never said that he hates Chinese, only that finals between two of them are boring for him (which doesn't make him racist regardless of the used definition)

He also didn't show any signs of prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism. And there is nothing else that could qualify anybody as a racist in that 2nd definition.

I also didn't give my opinion in previous post, just stated facts. Based on the first definition he is racist and based on the second one he isn't.

If You want my opinion then I was actually on Your side and I think that writing things like "he/she is good at something, cause he/she is white/black etc" is not fair. Even though some races have biological predispositions for some sports, predisposition is nothing without hard training etc.

But being unrespectful, unfair or whatever other adjectives we might throw it doesn't change the fact that there is definition of racism that doesn't match what Danny is representing, so he can be angry on people that call him racist and not agree with them
 
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I totally agree with that, so You can say that Danny is not respectful enough for the great player, but if his definition of racism is what I wrote previously then he will not see himself as racist. And whether You like it or not, it is a definition, so it can't be "wrong". Unless there is some more important dictionary that stands above the oxford's one.

It doesn't matter what race You give as an example and what sport You will use. He never said that he hates Chinese, only that finals between two of them are boring for him (which doesn't make him racist regardless of the used definition)

He also didn't show any signs of prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism. And there is nothing else that could qualify anybody as a racist in that 2nd definition.

I also didn't give my opinion in previous post, just stated facts. Based on the first definition he is racist and based on the second one he isn't.

If You want my opinion then I was actually on Your side and I think that writing things like "he/she is good at something, cause he/she is white/black etc" is not fair. Even though some races have biological predispositions for some sports, predisposition is nothing without hard training etc.

But being unrespectful, unfair or whatever other adjectives we might throw it doesn't change the fact that there is definition of racism that doesn't match what Danny is representing, so he can be angry on people that call him racist and not agree with them

I know the word racism is really difficult to define.
hence I said racial discrimination and boarder racism at first.
In fact based on your second definition, i'm sure there is a few evidence based on "discrimination" by said person. But we can leave it to that.
He can be sour and complain about one race, I will just enjoy table tennis by all race

And yeah, its so unnecessary to see people by colour - whether they succeed or fail.
Its 2019 for petes sake.
There is only one race and that is the human race
 
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pls stop fighting anymore. no matter who is in the final, for me I love to watch whoever play . People can watch Chinese Vs Chinese to see how they can win the game. If they really watch and study the game, it is not boring and they can learn from the game. We watch any sport not only want to see who win, we would love to learn something from the game. The Players skill, attitude to the game, how they deal with the situstion.....etc. We all love this sport, be friend to each other.
 
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as much as I think chinese wining is normal, i dont think it's boring, damn, I just want the best to play the finals, if they are chinese, great, if dont, great again...i just tend to like better the chinese game, simple, hard, direct and effective.
 
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It would be really depressing to be a fan of this sport if Japan wasn't around. They understand that it can't just be one country and one race dominating and that every match against said country/race is so one sided, so they're really doing their best to get their player's level up to par for the matches to be more competitive and not so one sided. Good for them. Really happy about what they're doing.
 
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And just to once again make it more clear, i don't "hate" China because they're Chinese, it's because they're the ones who are dominating right now and have been for the past 20 or more years. If the dominating country was Japan/Korea/Germany etc, I would've felt the same way about those countries like i do about China and i would've been rooting for China like i'm rooting for Japan/Korea/Germany and all the countries right now.
 
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You can say that Danny is not respectful enough for the great player, but if his definition of racism is what I wrote previously then he will not see himself as racist.
Of course Danny is not going to say he's racist; denial of racism is standard for all us, including the racists. Whether or not Danny is racist can only be determined by his words and actions - and we can't judge his actions given this is a forum and words are all we have to go on.

Is there evidence of racism in the words Danny has used in this thread?
I thought if someone was gonna beat a chinese it would be Pletea” - uses a racial term to describe a player, rather than use the player’s name.

Yes if it was a non chinese then i would say it's impressive since you never see a non chinese having winrates like that so of course i'd be impressed. Also, why are already getting into conclusions that i'm saying it's not impressive due to her ethnicity? I'm simply saying it's no impressive because it's not uncommon for chinese players to have winrates like that.” - this whole comment is based on racial groupings: Chinese and non-Chinese. Says he’s not commenting on “ethnicity” (his term) and then immediately diminishes one racial group’s achievements.

I'm sure many of them had a winrate like that in previous years but i don't have the time nor the energy to search for that right now. “ - evidence of prejudice - a word which means pre-judging. Danny has prejudged Chinese table tennis players without any evidence to support his claims, and refuses to find the evidence (and failure to examine evidence is classic racism).

Also, being sick and tired of the chinese dominance is one thing and just hating chinese people is another. If i was the latter then you could call me a racist.” - an attempt to distance himself from racism which fails to work, because he continues to judge people solely on their race. “chinese dominance” is still viewing people only by race.

This is why it's so boring to watch, because when you see a non chinese player win, you can see how happy they are and that's great to see.” - making an extraordinary claim based purely on his perception of how members of different races behave. Obviously, not all members of a group behave the same way, yet this is how Danny sees things, on race alone. Plus he’s making value judgments about whole races: Chinese not happy, non-Chinese happy.

Reading through the pages of this thread, it’s really easy to see where the heat is generated. If someone consistently makes remarks about one group of people which they don’t make against any other group, and if they fail to make any effort to clarify that their views are based on anything other than race, then yes, it’s reasonable to conclude that such a person is racist. Judging people solely on the basis of their race is racism.

However, at long, long last, Danny posts:
And just to once again make it more clear, i don't "hate" China because they're Chinese, it's because they're the ones who are dominating right now and have been for the past 20 or more years. If the dominating country was Japan/Korea/Germany etc, I would've felt the same way about those countries like i do about China and i would've been rooting for China like i'm rooting for Japan/Korea/Germany and all the countries right now.

If this had been Danny's starting point, this would have been an entirely different thread. FWIW, I still don't think this is much of an improvement. This is still looking no further than nationality/race as the standard for judging who to support. Personally, I could not care less what nationality a player is. If they are the best, they are the best. If they do something I admire, my admiration will be neither increased nor diminished because of their race.
 
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I get what you are saying, but I disagree with you that Shi is a victim of the system. So many non Chinese wish to take part in such system. So many have became top 10 level based on such system, this includes your Taiwanese, Japanese, Korean, Germans, Egyptians etc

its interesting that you get some people that see race and then have a direction of thought link to it.

Then you get others that don't see race and just see the athlete and his/her ability

then you get those who sees race and if the same race is playing against each other - it is boring to watch.

I really hope those who think Chinese vs Chinese is boring, should turn off the TV and stop watching table tennis when 2 Chinese is on. They don't deserve to witness good table tennis between Chinese vs Chinese players

Well said Tony , Table tennis is a fantastic sport and its more fantastic with chinese to be honest , They are the best like it or not , also Japan is improving everyday but has a very long way to be china in tt . But Now really people dont care about countries , we say Wow FZD vs Ma long what a game it will be , we never think about china vs china , If some one dont enjoy this game or as it was told china vs china so You really dont like Table tennis , cause you cant find a better final than china vs china . Fortunately china has started spreading table tennis love in every country . Im one of the people who got attracted to table tennis by watching Zhang jike and Wang hao rallies ...
 
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Well said Tony , Table tennis is a fantastic sport and its more fantastic with chinese to be honest , They are the best like it or not , also Japan is improving everyday but has a very long way to be china in tt . But Now really people dont care about countries , we say Wow FZD vs Ma long what a game it will be , we never think about china vs china , If some one dont enjoy this game or as it was told china vs china so You really dont like Table tennis , cause you cant find a better final than china vs china . Fortunately china has started spreading table tennis love in every country . Im one of the people who got attracted to table tennis by watching Zhang jike and Wang hao rallies ...
Just because they are the best doesn't mean it's interesting to watch. I could watch Michael Phelps or Lebron James being the best at what they do and for the first 3 or 4 times i'll be like "Wow, what an incredible dunk that was" or "Damn, i've never seen someone swim so fast", but after that when i see that for the 100th time i'll be like "Meh, i've seen him do that dunk many time already". Same goes for players like Ma Long, FZD, XX.. Like we already know XX's FH is incredible and that FZD's power and speed is amazing. It just adds nothing when i see that for the million time. This is why i like Japan so much. They've been constantly innovating and creative with their playstyles, good examples are Harimoto and Mima Ito. and the chinese players play is just the same old same old machines.
 
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Well said Tony , Table tennis is a fantastic sport and its more fantastic with chinese to be honest , They are the best like it or not , also Japan is improving everyday but has a very long way to be china in tt . But Now really people dont care about countries , we say Wow FZD vs Ma long what a game it will be , we never think about china vs china , If some one dont enjoy this game or as it was told china vs china so You really dont like Table tennis , cause you cant find a better final than china vs china . Fortunately china has started spreading table tennis love in every country . Im one of the people who got attracted to table tennis by watching Zhang jike and Wang hao rallies ...
Also you are speaking as if you never discriminate against other player because of how biased you are towards the chinese players. I've seen you many times constantly dissing Harimoto even when he deserved credit for his efforts. For example he beat Ma Long you said "come on ma long don't lose to this screaming kid" or when he beat Wang Chuqin at the YOG team event after losing to him in the singles finals you said you didn't like it because Harimoto won and i bet if Wang Chuqin won you would've said the opposite. Now how is that any less racist than what i said?
 
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Well what makes this forum popular is different kind of views and opinions . For me , I get excited every time by watching the rallies of the best players but also watching the defeat of Ma long and FZD is interesting too specially when the winner is non_ chinese but after Their lose I want them to play better next time and see those beautiful raliies again . And one thing , this games are not the same at all , in every game Xu xin or zhang jike , Timo boll and .... bring some new hits or rallies from different angle or new tactics .
 
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