How to classify rating in TT

dominus7 · Dec 2, 2018

I was reading some posts, including the last from der_echte, and I realized that I don't know exactly how to classify the rating TT players, could some one share the wisdom please?

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FruitLoop · Dec 2, 2018

Does your country have a rating system?

ttdad · Dec 2, 2018

http://www.pongworld.com/more/skill_level_note.php

NDH · Dec 2, 2018

dominus7 said:
I was reading some posts, including the last from der_echte, and I realized that I don't know exactly how to classify the rating TT players, could some one share the wisdom please?

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The best way to classify TT ratings, is to really study every statistic across multiple leagues and matches.

Then realise that it's virtually impossible to actually classify someone into a global rating system, and it's a shot in the dark at best.

I wish there was a global rating system, but I can't see it ever happening.

ttdad · Dec 2, 2018

http://www.usatt.net/league/singles/ratings_league.html

https://www.thoughtco.com/table-tennis-playing-levels-3173601

dominus7 · Dec 2, 2018

FruitLoop said:
Does your country have a rating system?

Nope, or at least I didn't hear about it, that's why I ask hehe

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dominus7 · Dec 2, 2018

ttdad said:
http://www.usatt.net/league/singles/ratings_league.html

https://www.thoughtco.com/table-tennis-playing-levels-3173601

Thanks!!!

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dominus7 · Dec 2, 2018

NDH said:
The best way to classify TT ratings, is to really study every statistic across multiple leagues and matches.

Then realise that it's virtually impossible to actually classify someone into a global rating system, and it's a shot in the dark at best.

I wish there was a global rating system, but I can't see it ever happening.

I'm agreed

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Der_Echte · Dec 2, 2018

USA uses a chess-like ELO numerical rating system to rank players. More or less it works as you here "1900" or "1400" and you have a decent idea of the play level.

Koreans use DIVISIONS for amateur TT. Coaches assess the players and place them into divisions. If a player wins the city tourney, they move up a level. In some cases, if a player grows so much, but doesn't win, other coaches complain to TD and player moves into the higher division. They did that to me over there. I never did any better than 3rd place in city tourney, but they moved me from Div 4 to 3 to 2. Divisions will be very stacked with under-classified players on the top end of each division.

For City/Regional they place players into...

HOPE Division - Raw Beginners who are under USATT 1000 level
Div 5 - USATT 1000-1600
Div 4 - USATT 1400-1800
Div 3 - USATT 1700-1950
Div 2 - USATT 1900-2100
Div 1 - USATT 2000-2300
Div 0 - USATT 2200-2350

FruitLoop · Dec 2, 2018

UK has no ratings but top 1000 or so players are ranked. Unless you get into this top 1000 you don't have a rating.

TT365 are trying to develop a national rating system.

Wister · Dec 2, 2018

this video shows a summary of skills for each level : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILWleidpGbU&t=11s

not sure how accurate it is

vvk1 · Dec 2, 2018

FruitLoop said:
UK has no ratings but top 1000 or so players are ranked. Unless you get into this top 1000 you don't have a rating.

TT365 are trying to develop a national rating system.

This is slightly inaccurate.

It is very easy to get on the official TTE (Table Tennis England) under 13/cadet/junior/under 21/senior/veteran ranking and rating lists - just choose an age category and play at least 4 matches in one or more TTE-sanctioned tournaments or senior/veteran British league and win at least 1 match. This will result in an official TTE "tournament" rankings/ratings. There is no size limit on the number of list entries - for example, the veteran ratings list has 645 entries, while the senior ratings list has 1063 entries, and so on.

At present, the ranking/rating database is maintained by tabletennis365.com. Note that in TTE's parlance, a "ranking" list only includes players eligible to play for England while a "ratings" list includes all registered players in that age category.

Additionally, if you play in a local league that uses tabletennis365.com software, then you will have a tabletennis365 ranking - which takes into account all your local league matches plus all TTE-sanctioned tournaments. Effectively, this is the "national" ranking.

Some people, including myself, feel that the tt365 ranking points are a more accurate reflection of a player's level than official TTE senior/veteran ranking/rating points.

P.S.: Apologies to the OP for taking the thread a bit off-topic (but someone on the Internet was wrong

).

mart1nandersson · Dec 2, 2018

Any national ranking system which consists of a top 100 with a vast majority of players being being born 1990 or later is a good system. Our system is quite hard to abuse but we still have some that succeed (like a veteran player placing in front of Truls).

ttpshot · Dec 3, 2018

USA's rating system is fantastic and I wish we have it in Japan. Are there any cons for having ELO rating system?

FruitLoop · Dec 3, 2018

vvk1 said:
This is slightly inaccurate.

It is very easy to get on the official TTE (Table Tennis England) under 13/cadet/junior/under 21/senior/veteran ranking and rating lists - just choose an age category and play at least 4 matches in one or more TTE-sanctioned tournaments or senior/veteran British league and win at least 1 match. This will result in an official TTE "tournament" rankings/ratings. There is no size limit on the number of list entries - for example, the veteran ratings list has 645 entries, while the senior ratings list has 1063 entries, and so on.

At present, the ranking/rating database is maintained by tabletennis365.com. Note that in TTE's parlance, a "ranking" list only includes players eligible to play for England while a "ratings" list includes all registered players in that age category.

Additionally, if you play in a local league that uses tabletennis365.com software, then you will have a tabletennis365 ranking - which takes into account all your local league matches plus all TTE-sanctioned tournaments. Effectively, this is the "national" ranking.

Some people, including myself, feel that the tt365 ranking points are a more accurate reflection of a player's level than official TTE senior/veteran ranking/rating points.

P.S.: Apologies to the OP for taking the thread a bit off-topic (but someone on the Internet was wrong ).

Thanks for the correction!

However to add, there is still no ranking for local league only players which I assume is the vast majority of players so in effect the ranking list is quite inaccurate. Also many juniors/cadets/vets stick to their own and hence have no senior ranking, decreasing it's accuracy further.

The tt365 ranking is still in 'beta' but a national sortable ranking should be available in the future. At the moment there is only local league and county filters. This should be much more accurate because it will include almost all matches played eventually, local league, tournaments of every category and even female and male will be able to be compared. Essentially it will be like USATT rating or German TTR just not run by the national organisation. Or maybe they will adopt it? Who knows.

Takkyu_wa_inochi · Dec 3, 2018

Do you know P4match.com ? They organize some tournaments with a ranking system

Der_Echte · Dec 3, 2018

vvk1 said:
p.s.: Apologies to the op for taking the thread a bit off-topic (but someone on the internet was wrong ).

klasse.

vvk1 · Dec 3, 2018

FruitLoop said:
Thanks for the correction!

However to add, there is still no ranking for local league only players which I assume is the vast majority of players so in effect the ranking list is quite inaccurate. Also many juniors/cadets/vets stick to their own and hence have no senior ranking, decreasing it's accuracy further.

The tt365 ranking is still in 'beta' but a national sortable ranking should be available in the future. At the moment there is only local league and county filters. This should be much more accurate because it will include almost all matches played eventually, local league, tournaments of every category and even female and male will be able to be compared. Essentially it will be like USATT rating or German TTR just not run by the national organisation. Or maybe they will adopt it? Who knows.

Actually, so long as your local league uses TT365 website to enter match results, every player in that local league will have a tt365 ranking. The local league's admins just need to enable the Ranking module in the admin section. Though, I have noticed that some leagues are resistant to that for various reasons.

I agree it would be good to have a global list of all registered local league players across all leagues, with the ability to do head to head comparisons, etc.

JST · Dec 3, 2018

ttpshot said:
USA's rating system is fantastic and I wish we have it in Japan. Are there any cons for having ELO rating system?

Yes indeed. ELO type of ranking works well if players meet often and all levels and regions mix on regular basis. Otherwise you will have regionally or level-wise isolated groups who will have ranking not corresponding to the similar level elsewhere.

In the countries with majority of competitions being sanctioned tournaments it means that people must travel through the country (to spread the information) and that people should be changing categories regularly. This is USATT example.

In the countries with competitions being dominantly teams and league systems it requires at least some people playing for multiple teams in multiple leagues and the overall system must be well linked across whole country (good portion of teams must be promoted/demoted each year and the highest divisions must travel through whole country). This is mostly the case of Europe (Germany, PL, CZ, SK, AUT, Belgium, France, Denmark, Sweden...)

FruitLoop · Dec 3, 2018

vvk1 said:
Actually, so long as your local league uses TT365 website to enter match results, every player in that local league will have a tt365 ranking. The local league's admins just need to enable the Ranking module in the admin section. Though, I have noticed that some leagues are resistant to that for various reasons.

I agree it would be good to have a global list of all registered local league players across all leagues, with the ability to do head to head comparisons, etc.

You are correct but the Ratings list for TTE doesn't include local league results I think? Also Scottish and Welsh leagues are not yet incorporated into the system but I heard there is hope they will be soon.

How to classify rating in TT

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