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    1. Top | #1
      tutas_piotr is offline
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      Physical training - addressing some points.

      I prepared very long post but it's gone. Auto-saved function has only a fraction of things that I wanted to mention so this time I will make it short.

      First of all - I'm not a pro table tennis player. far from it. I type this message as a personal trainer and strenght sports enthusiast.

      I will list some of the information I have encountered on this site that I believe are not true.

      1. High reps for being ripped.
      High reps don't have any special abilites to shape the muscle. Being ripped means having some muscles with low amount of body fat. So using a training that burn enough calories accompanied with diet makes you ripped (assuming that you already have the muscles... If not then it's discussion for another topic ). Number of reps are not deciding factor.

      2. Weight training (especially low reps with high weight) makes you slow
      Myth. Weight training doesnt make you slow. Getting fat and less mobile does. Weights make you stronger and might make you faster. I typed 'might' becase speed is not as trainable ability as strenght. However there is one thing that might interest you. Strenght training teaches your body to use more strenght in short amount of time. Have you seen olympic weightligers that lift 200kg (440lbs) over their head while some of them look like regular dudes? They used weight training to be able to use alot of strenght in very little amount of time through preparing nervous system to activate muscle fibres very fast (high rate of force production) not to look jacked. Don't you think that can help in killer shots ?

      3. Gym work needs to be similar to table tennis match (endurance based, lighter weights etc.)
      Myth. Table tennis players are not weightlifters and gym is not a tennis table. Strength traning needs to supplement sports training. Not simulate it. So pick what table tennis training can't give you but weight training can - strenght, using as much strenght as fast as possible in more explosive exercises (as push press for example), working on muscles that are not worked much in table tennis for balance purposes, prehab (like strenghtening rotator cuffs).
      Last edited by tutas_piotr; 12-12-2018 at 01:25 AM.

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    3. Top | #2
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      As far as I understand weight training is that it varies depending on your calendar of training. There is a stage where you are at low weight low intensity and then there is a phase where your are developing power by lifting heavy weights going to decrease while you are nearing competition phase.

    4. Top | #3
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      Just the basic principles of fitness and the possible ways to train for different aspects our sport require more than a few paragraphs... it would literally be a book.

      I see how the OP intended to organize his message into what people believe and generally what we should do for such and such objective... and he is generally right.

      USD Carl will read you upside-down til Ur head gets blue about practical effective things... approaches, methods, motivation, total concept, holistic considerations, availability, equipment, expedients, plans, variations, progression, intensity, frequency, type, time, rest, work, nutrition, recovery... all in simple terms or in professor $1000 USD words that would confuse the Goon Squad wannabe crowd for months.

      maybe saying the title to dispel a few myths would be right... too much to say in a few CM of screen.

      OP just learned that when writing a LONG post, it is a good idea to select all (CTRL+A) copy (CTRL+C) it all before posting... no matter how good autosave is.
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    5. Top | #4
      tutas_piotr is offline
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      thanks for replies. yes, there are alot of things to talk about approaches etc. and that would be a book if we wanted to cover that all. but that was not my intention.

      I took some things from what i read in this forum and addressed it in general. i checked only 3 or 4 topic but those weren't full of quality info (rather opposite) . So I think it's better to try to address some things than to leave it as it is.

      There are multiple ways to skin a cat. if I say that high reps are not dedicated for cutting phase it doesnt mean they don't have a place in training routine. it means that there is nothing magical about high rep training for fat loss. i think dispelling some of the claims doesnt need a book.

      On the other hand - even if the topic of weight training is broad there is one thing in common - good routines are based on big compound movements, then optionally some accesories. machines or 'weird' exercises are not used by default unless there is a specific need for that. so if you find a training with leg press instead of squat - search elswhere. it's like every onther sports - learn basics as it cover all allmost all your needs for very very long time.
      Last edited by tutas_piotr; 12-12-2018 at 07:08 AM.

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    7. Top | #5
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      To add to what I already stated, weight training intensity varies depending on the phase of training. In a calendar year, the phases are preparation stage, specialization, pre-competition, competition and off season. All of which have their own specific tasks and training. This includes weight trIning or no weight training.

    8. Top | #6
      tutas_piotr is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by yogi_bear View Post
      To add to what I already stated, weight training intensity varies depending on the phase of training. In a calendar year, the phases are preparation stage, specialization, pre-competition, competition and off season. All of which have their own specific tasks and training. This includes weight trIning or no weight training.
      Yes. It's very often structured into phases. Not always as for example some linear progression programs instruct you to do all the same things over and over again but with little more weight every training (or add a rep or two if adding weight is not possible). It creates a little different program over time as your example (phases) often starts with high volume and gradually decreases it (between phases) while the intensity goes up.
      In my example the volume doesn't go lower for a lot of time (it actually goes up a little bit as we need more and more warm up sets) and the intensity goes up all the time. At some point you lower a little volume (lower the number of reps to make adding weight possible) but for most of the program you do not alter volume that much.
      Last edited by tutas_piotr; 12-12-2018 at 08:25 AM.

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      The intensity and weight is at its peak probably 1.5 months before the competition then after than it lowers down up to nothing like 2 - 3 weeks before competition time.

    10. Top | #8
      tutas_piotr is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by yogi_bear View Post
      The intensity and weight is at its peak probably 1.5 months before the competition then after than it lowers down up to nothing like 2 - 3 weeks before competition time.
      That varies. The weight is at its peak shortly (very shortly) before competition actually. not 1.5 months. that would cause athlete to detrain just before the competition.
      The reason for that is the peak quickly deteriorates and last week or two are often for testing openers. But we changed the subject to powerlifting/weightlifting from general strength training. Non-competing people never need to test 1 rep max unless they want to.
      Last edited by tutas_piotr; 12-12-2018 at 08:42 AM.

    11. Top | #9
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      Some sports science people i have worked with use this method because according to them it is important to retain the power and speed while reducing the weight of the load from heavy to just the weight of the racket. In my opinion this does not detrain the player because you are not stopping the use of weights but rather reducing the weight until the weight of the racket only is involved.

    12. Top | #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by yogi_bear View Post
      Some sports science people i have worked with use this method because according to them it is important to retain the power and speed while reducing the weight of the load from heavy to just the weight of the racket. In my opinion this does not detrain the player because you are not stopping the use of weights but rather reducing the weight until the weight of the racket only is involved.
      Ah you are talking about competition in table tennis. I thought you switched to strength sports. Sorry.

    13. Top | #11
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      Probably a month the most for the heaviest weight and intensity and then it lowers down. 1.5months might be too early.

    14. Top | #12
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      Sorry, i was talking about strength training in table tennis for a calendar year because the principles you mentioned should be applied to table tennis.

      Quote Originally Posted by tutas_piotr View Post
      Ah you are talking about competition in table tennis. I thought you switched to strength sports. Sorry.

    15. Top | #13
      tutas_piotr is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by yogi_bear View Post
      Sorry, i was talking about strength training in table tennis for a calendar year because the principles you mentioned should be applied to table tennis.
      Slight misunderstanding from my side.


      However there would be no need to drop the weight training if you lower the volume and keep more explosive exercises (like power clean). Those are done with low reps and very dynamically. You can omit the eccentric phase to not fatigue yourself. But that's just a thought.

      But I totally can see the reason to limit strength training next to nothing if the sports training (which is table tennis training in this discussion) takes a toll on the body of player close to the competition. No need to risk making sports performance worse by activity not related to sport itself.
      Last edited by tutas_piotr; 12-12-2018 at 09:37 AM.

    16. Top | #14
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      Some sweaty drills. It as an athletic sport, indeed.

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