What makes China so good?

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I still think competent coaches is the most important. I could train 6 hours a day from the age of 6 but if i have the wrong technique i will not be as good as the chinese. Almost waste of time to practice with wrong technique.

I also think it is interesting how other players that win over the chinese or is close to their level how they have trained. They proably did not start as early and have proably not trained as much, so their training must have been more efficient? But a lot of european players peak after 30 years of age when they have trained enough hours to become really good.
 
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Other countries aren't serious enough I guess. Other global sports aren't dominated by one country to the extent of table tennis. That's none of China's fault though. And you know, lack of resource is not really an excuse if Sweden can do it. From TT fan's point of view, I'd love to see TT played competitively in many counties that's why I (and probably many fans in China) love seeing players such as Calderano or Khanak coming through.

Although Japan's been improving steadily in 21st century, I'd prefer European club systems which allows adults to continue playing table tennis. Majority of registered players in Japan are U18 an there aren't any local club and league structure for average players (like myself) to play.
 
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I still think competent coaches is the most important. I could train 6 hours a day from the age of 6 but if i have the wrong technique i will not be as good as the chinese. Almost waste of time to practice with wrong technique.

I also think it is interesting how other players that win over the chinese or is close to their level how they have trained. They proably did not start as early and have proably not trained as much, so their training must have been more efficient? But a lot of european players peak after 30 years of age when they have trained enough hours to become really good.

I mostly agree. Except add that the hurricane rubber with their style gives the Chinese more control with less unenforced errors while the European style players have more powerful shots with their 4h but less consistency, so with any given match they could win.
 
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I mostly agree. Except add that the hurricane rubber with their style gives the Chinese more control with less unenforced errors while the European style players have more powerful shots with their 4h but less consistency, so with any given match they could win.

I think that the chinese have more control because they have so good footwork so they only play one type of shot. Because of this they can play with hard rubbers as hurricane. European players play more kind of shots because they Do not have as good footwork. This make them miss more. Tabletennis is easier when you can move well and practice and play one type of shot.
 
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I think that the chinese have more control because they have so good footwork so they only play one type of shot. Because of this they can play with hard rubbers as hurricane. European players play more kind of shots because they Do not have as good footwork. This make them miss more. Tabletennis is easier when you can move well and practice and play one type of shot.

Specifically, Chinese have more control on short pushes vs the European, less unforced errors. I don't think that is affected much by footwork.
 
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Specifically, Chinese have more control on short pushes vs the European, less unforced errors. I don't think that is affected much by footwork.

The foundation of Chinese players in general, footwork is better for sure.
Short pushes requires footwork too and when one has good footwork, one is in better position to have less unforced errors
I do believe the Europeans in foundation stage does emphasize very differently to Chinese on training
at the end of the day, one player will have less unforced errors while the other will have more irrespective on system when one will be the winner and the other will be the looser

also European does have a lot of good coaches, but I understand the training is not as enhanced than the Asian counter parts

China is not the only country doing 30~40 hours a week.

In Taiwan, your typical "school" who has table tennis as a sport, would hire a coach or few coaches (some of these are former top players). Have table tennis in the afternoon (2 to 3 hours) between Monday to Friday.
For evening, it is normally 3 evenings between Monday to Friday (another 2 to 3 hour)
Then Saturday is a full day (6 hours), thus making it about 30 hours a week.

The good of Taiwan is, there is your strong table tennis schools, so during primary school if your kid loves table tennis and has the chance of doing well, you can move the kid to a strong table tennis primary school, and then they can move onto a top tt junior high and then top tt senior high.

One of my friends is the head coach of one of the top tt senior high girls school, Miu Hirano went there to prepare for the WTGF... ITO, Hirano and a few other was there earlier the year before the world champs.
that school TT team has 10 tables up (space for more, but they only use 10), proper flooring, each table has thousands of ball, and hope to some of Taiwan's top junior. It was also the top school team in the world - winning Gold at a recent international school tournament.
now Japan and Korea is similar

So how much hours, or what kind of environment is your European counterpart?
I do understand there is almost no school structure, as it is more club structure
 
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Money!!!! The good athletes play a sport that pays money. Even golf pays more than TT :(

I don't believe this to be the case.

In order to become a good player, you first need to become a player. You need to "invest". What brings you to the game? Glad you ask. People start playing a sport because it somehow attracts them. The call of the hip, happening, shiny & fashionable; family tradition; the pull of friends; accidental infatuation; it all happens.

And in the end, out of a very large number of starters a very small number will plow on to become highly proficient at it, and out of these few a very, very, very small number indeed will get to be paid for their hobbies and out of these very, very few a very select number will get both blessed and lucky and reach the peak of the game skill's bell curve.

It's not a comparative shopping excercise in which you start out with a set, given amount of skill/talent and then get to decide in which branch of sport that resource pays best.

And I should add, I cannot name one single sportsperson, any place, any time, anywhere, that was merely driven by greed for green snippets of paper. In any sport. Every single great athlete I can think of got to be where they ended up by a profound love of their game.
 
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I don't believe this to be the case.

In order to become a good player, you first need to become a player. You need to "invest". What brings you to the game? Glad you ask. People start playing a sport because it somehow attracts them. The call of the hip, happening, shiny & fashionable; family tradition; the pull of friends; accidental infatuation; it all happens.

And in the end, out of a very large number of starters a very small number will plow on and become very proficional, and out of these few a very, very, very small number indeed will get to be paid for their hobbies and out of these very, very few a very select number will get both blessed and lucky and reach the peak of the game skill's bell curve.

It's not a comparative shopping excercise in which you start out with a set, given amount of skill/talent and then get to decide in which branch of sport that resource pays best.

And I should add, I cannot name one single sportsperson, any place, any time, anywhere, that was merely driven by greed for green snippets of paper. In any sport. Every single great athlete I can think of got to be where they ended up by a profound love of their game.

Yes, fame of sport is maybe equally important in the grassroot level to set off the interest of the kid to presue it.

but if there is not future, will parents invest in the kids to get to a world championships, self funded and bringing back a medal and no future as an athlete or coach?

I know a kid (at YOG and top in senior world ranking already) that have wealthy parents, and the parents has saved up enough for the kid for "life", the kid in question has changed to home schooling.
His TT budget is easily in access of USD5000 a month
Now, no matter what his future achievement is, TT won't justify a return of investment on USD60k a year, and how many years?

But then, I also know coaches who were top 10 in the world with zero money and made it to the top
Now they are making some money as a coach
 
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Zeio's propaganda ... ;-p

I'm serious here. That's how Schlager described Europe right before WTTC 2013. The news was picked up by Chinese media.

https://sportv2.orf.at/stories/2181820/2181845/
„Sind noch in der Steinzeit“

Österreichs Tischtennis-Asse Werner Schlager, Chen Weixing und Liu Jia haben es in der vergangenen Woche sozusagen wieder einmal hautnah miterlebt. Das Leistungslevel der chinesischen Nationalmannschaft bei deren Trainingslager in der Werner Schlager Academy (WSA) war derart hoch, dass am Pfingstwochenende in Paris-Bercy ein nicht chinesischer oder gar europäischer Weltmeister kaum denkbar ist.
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Schlager ist am Ausbau der chinesischen Perfektion indirekt selbst schuld, nach seinem WM-Sensationsgold 2003 in Paris legten die Asse aus dem „Reich der Mitte“ noch einmal an Intensität nach. „Ihre Trainingsqualität ist ärger, als ich es mir vorgestellt habe, so außergewöhnlich hoch“, sagte Schlager vor seiner Abreise zum WM-Turnier der APA.

Die Medaillenabonnenten von der Weltranglistenspitze müssten sich beim Training gegen Spieler anderer Nationen zurücknehmen, um einem solchen überhaupt erst Sinn zu geben. Schlager verzichtete diesmal auch aus diesem Grund auf Sessions gegen seine WSA-Gäste, auch weil es kein gutes Omen gewesen wäre. Schlager: „Immer wenn wir mit ihnen trainiert haben, haben wir beim Großereignis schlecht gespielt.“
China müsste „Nachbar in Not“ spielen

Der Grund dafür sei, das eine Rückumstellung auf das normale Niveau vom „Rest der Welt“ nicht so schnell möglich zu machen sei, was unerwartete Niederlagen zur Folge habe. Ein Herantasten an die oberste Leistungsebene würde nur ein regelmäßiges Training mit den Chinesen gewährleisten. „Da müssten sie aber ‚Nachbar in Not‘ spielen, in jedes Land fünf Trainer und 500.000 Euro schicken.“

Ein möglicher Beginn ist die im Frühjahr erstmals durchgeführte Bildung von Doppel-Paaren auf der World Tour von chinesischen mit nicht chinesischen Spielern. Schlager sieht darin aber nur eine Alibihandlung, da es keine langfristigen Kooperationen sind und die Chinesen dadurch auch keine Titel verlieren. „Sie sind schon zu mehr gewillt, wissen aber nicht, wie weit sie gehen können.“
Abstand weiter vergrößert

Einen Vergleich mit der ehemaligen Ski-Entwicklungshilfe vom österreichischen (ÖSV) an den US-Verband lässt Schlager gelten. Danach schlossen die US-Amerikaner auf und fuhren Rot-Weiß-Rot zeitweise um die Ohren. Im Tischtennis ist der Unterschied aber noch größer. „Eigentlich sind wir noch in der Steinzeit“, meinte das ÖTTV-Ass. „Bei uns fehlt es schon an der Scouting- und Talenteförderungsstruktur.“

Bei den Chinesen ist das alles vorhanden, dadurch wurde die Leistungsdichte an ihrer absoluten Spitze zuletzt noch größer. „In den vergangenen zwei Jahren sind viele junge Spieler dazugekommen, auch dadurch sind sie stärker geworden“, gab der 40-jährige Schlager an. Einige aus diesem Kreis sind der neue Weltranglistenerste Xu Xin oder auch Yan An, Zhou Yu und Fang Bo. Bei den Chinesinnen geht diese Entwicklung noch rasanter voran.

Das habe die chinesische Struktur laut Schlager weiter aufgewertet. Alteingesessene wie der zweifache Olympiazweite Wang Hao oder Peking-Olympiasieger Ma Lin haben schwer zu kämpfen, um Schritt zu halten. Der dreifache Ex-Weltmeister Wang Liqin war in der WSA primär schon nur noch als Trainingspartner dabei, darf in Paris aber zumindest noch einmal im Doppel WM-Luft schnuppern.
"Are still in the Stone Age"

Austria's table tennis aces Werner Schlager, Chen Weixing and Liu Jia experienced it once again in the past week, so to speak. The performance level of the Chinese national team at their training camp in the Werner Schlager Academy (WSA) was so high that on Whitsun weekend in Paris-Bercy a non-Chinese or even European world champion is hardly conceivable.
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Schlager is indirectly to blame for the expansion of Chinese perfection itself, after his World Cup sensation gold in 2003 in Paris, the aces from the "Middle Kingdom" once more in intensity. "Their training quality is worse than I imagined, so extraordinarily high," Schlager said before leaving for the APA World Cup tournament.

The medal subscribers of the world ranking point top would have to take back during training against players from other nations, to make such a sense in the first place. For this reason, Schlager also refrained from taking sessions against his WSA guests, also because it would not have been a good omen. Schlager: "Whenever we have trained with them, we played badly at the big event."
China would have to play "Neighbor in Need"

The reason for this is that a return to the normal level of the "rest of the world" is not so fast possible, resulting in unexpected defeats. An approach to the highest level of performance would only ensure regular training with the Chinese. "But they would have to play Neighbor in Need, send five coaches and 500,000 euros to each country."

A possible start is the first spring training of doubles on the World Tour of Chinese with non-Chinese players. Schlager sees in it but only an alibi act, because there are no long-term cooperation and the Chinese thereby lose no titles. "They are willing to do more, but they do not know how far they can go."
Distance further increased

A comparison with the former ski development aid from the Austrian (ÖSV) to the US Association Schlager applies. Then the Americans joined and drove red-white-red at times around the ears. In table tennis the difference is even bigger. "Actually, we are still in the Stone Age," said the ÖTTV ace. "We are already missing the scouting and talent promotion structure."

With the Chinese, this is all there, thus the power density at its absolute peak was even greater. "Over the past two years, many young players have joined in, which has made them stronger," said the 40-year-old Schlager. Some of this circle are the new world number one Xu Xin or Yan An, Zhou Yu and Fang Bo. For the Chinese, this development is advancing even faster.

That has upgraded the Chinese structure, according to Schlager. Long-time veterans like the two-time Olympian Wang Hao and Beijing Olympic gold medalist Ma Lin are struggling to keep up. The triple former world champion Wang Liqin was in the WSA primarily only as a training partner here, but may in Paris at least once again in the double World Cup air sniff.
 
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Adham Sharara actually pointed out the problems with Europe in 2009, a month after China swept ALL possible medals, 17 out 20 at the WTTC.

http://sports.cctv.com/20090610/100895.shtml
  在观看了中国世界乒乓球对抗赛后,沙拉拉在采访中表示,“国际乒联会和中国乒协紧密合作,更快地促进欧洲、韩国和日本等国家地区的乒乓球水平的发展。”
  而沙拉拉也透露在今天与中国乒协的沟通中,他提出了两个建议。“今天早晨我和中国乒协的官员进行了沟通,他们表示‘养狼计划’也许应该改一个名字。我很支持这个计划,但关键是如何去做。国际乒联会和中国乒协紧密合作,更快地促进欧洲、韩国和日本等国家地区的乒乓球水平的发展。”沙拉拉说,“具体我有两个建议,一个是中国乒乓球队打开国门,允许其他协会球员与国家队共同训练。另外一个就是让中国更多的优秀教练走出去执教其他协会的球队。”
  对于这些年欧洲逐步被中国乒乓球拉开距离,沙拉拉也总结了4点原因。“第一就是教练。欧洲教练总是抱着以前的那套东西不放,而中国教练则在不断的创新之中。第二是身体素质。以前欧洲球员的身体素质要比中国选手好,但是现在中国选手的身体素质得到了很大的提高,无论是球速和力度上都比以前好。我想这是一个很大的变化。第三是在15年前,欧洲拥有全世界最好的器材,无论是球板还是胶皮。但是现在最好的器材在中国,这让中国选手可以打出旋转更强、速度更快的球来。第四是中国乒乓球队获得了很多国际知名大公司,例如大众汽车的赞助,这样中国球员在面对其他协会选手的时候更有自信心。”
After watching the China World Table Tennis Match, Sharara said in an interview that "the ITTF and the China Table Tennis Association will work closely together to promote the development of table tennis in Europe, South Korea and Japan."

And Sharara also revealed that in his communication with the China Table Tennis Association today, he made two suggestions. "I communicated with officials of the China Table Tennis Association this morning. They said that the 'wolf plan' may have to change its name. I am very supportive of this plan, but the key is how to do it. The ITTF and the China Table Tennis Association work closely together. Promote the development of table tennis in countries such as Europe, South Korea and Japan more quickly," said Sharara. "I have two suggestions. One is that the Chinese table tennis team opens the country and allows other association players to work with the national team. Training. The other is to let more outstanding Chinese coaches go out to coach other associations."

For these years, Europe has gradually been separated by Chinese table tennis, and Sharara has also summed up four reasons. “The first is the coach. European coaches always hold the previous set of things, while Chinese coaches are constantly innovating. The second is physical fitness. Previously European players were better than Chinese players, but Now the physical quality of Chinese players has been greatly improved, both in terms of speed and strength. I think this is a big change. The third is that 15 years ago, Europe has the best equipment in the world. Whether it is a ball or rubber, but now the best equipment in China, which allows Chinese players to play a stronger, faster ball. Fourth, the Chinese table tennis team has won many internationally renowned companies, such as The sponsorship of Volkswagen, so that Chinese players are more confident in the face of other association players."
 
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I know a kid (at YOG and top in senior world ranking already) that have wealthy parents, and the parents has saved up enough for the kid for "life", the kid in question has changed to home schooling.
His TT budget is easily in access of USD5000 a month
Just curious, who is this? Or maybe at least a hint on gender and country ;)
 
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Just curious, who is this? Or maybe at least a hint on gender and country ;)

Sorry, I know the player personally, so it will be inappropriate to share names.

5000USd isn't uncommon
I know another girl player (not even anywhere in the top of the junior circuit) that will get a practice partner at 3000USD a month to help her improve
 
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Sorry, I know the player personally, so it will be inappropriate to share names.

5000USd isn't uncommon
I know another girl player (not even anywhere in the top of the junior circuit) that will get a practice partner at 3000USD a month to help her improve

I would guess Lin Yu-Ju but I imagine Tony would not be willing to confirm.
 
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I would guess Lin Yu-Ju but I imagine Tony would not be willing to confirm.

I think the question of confirming and not is irrelevant.
If you trust me and believe me, then you will know money is a big part of a players success.
Its either government funding, private funding or self funding.

Do you think Ito and Harimoto go there without spending anything short of few hundred thousand dollars, or maybe even a million dollars already?

I know junior players that has some gov funding, some private funding, but self funding (parents) is far greater than the rest combined.
I think this is a case in many sports - investment required before turning Pro.
 
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