Has anyone tried to figure out the weight of the glue?

says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,822
13,216
30,395
Read 27 reviews
Well, we have seen Keini play and we have seen Tony's Table Tennis play who both have been recommending more layers of glue.
What we also have seen is langel's trolling attempts, but what we haven't seen yet is langel play, who recommends 1 layer...

Suga D,

I would like to see his vids and hiz graveyards too... It would give a perspective of his play level for sure.

However, I see Korean Coach after Korean Coach and pro shop employee use one layer of water glue on each and do fine.

The pro shop who build 20-50 bats a day and ship them out in Korea use one layer and a hair drier set to air only no heat... and they adhere just fine.

I play TT vs the guys who by then had thousands of bats experience... and they were maybe TTR 900-1000... but they could glue it better than me over 100 bats.

It is possible to make a great glue job at a crappy play level.

But yeah, I get it, we would all like to get our advice form a player who has been there and done that to a minimum level... more so than one who doesn't play so well.

We rightfully discount or ignore advise of players who show they do not play very well... when it comes to fundamentals and advanced aspects of TT or equipment or tactics or what not.

I just say that doing a good glue job doesn't have a lot to do with play level.
 
  • Like
Reactions: whocarez
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Oct 2016
1,883
1,583
3,807
I find it interesting that a thread about glue and layers of glue have this many answers haha ;) And now i am answering in it also haha. I do not think layers of glue do so much different. I glue one layer on each, and a friend glue two layers and both our rackets is fine to play with.

I agree with Echte that the level of play have anything to do with the glueing. I have a friend, that played for the junior national team for sweden and she do not know how to glue.

I disagree with Echte that fundementals, aspects of tabletennis, equipment or tactics should be ignored if the playing level is low. Proably alot of good players have more knowledge about this, but then there are alot of good tabletennis players with pretty strange technique and those that do not know much about tabletennis in general. I also think there is alot of coaches with alot of knowledge that are not so good at tabletennis themselves. This proably varies depending on individuals and it is hard to make a general statement. I always though Americans were pretty bad at tabletennis and did not know much. I do not know much about the playing level but i have learned through this forum that alot of americans have alot of knowledge about tabletennis.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
May 2015
3,238
3,924
27,424
Read 5 reviews
Suga D,

I would like to see his vids and hiz graveyards too... It would give a perspective of his play level for sure.

However, I see Korean Coach after Korean Coach and pro shop employee use one layer of water glue on each and do fine.

The pro shop who build 20-50 bats a day and ship them out in Korea use one layer and a hair drier set to air only no heat... and they adhere just fine.

I play TT vs the guys who by then had thousands of bats experience... and they were maybe TTR 900-1000... but they could glue it better than me over 100 bats.

It is possible to make a great glue job at a crappy play level.

But yeah, I get it, we would all like to get our advice form a player who has been there and done that to a minimum level... more so than one who doesn't play so well.

We rightfully discount or ignore advise of players who show they do not play very well... when it comes to fundamentals and advanced aspects of TT or equipment or tactics or what not.

I just say that doing a good glue job doesn't have a lot to do with play level.

Der_Echte

I totally understand that the playing level has not very much to do with the quality of a glue job itself, and of course most shops over here that assemble blades for their customers only use a single glue layer for blade and rubber each, but that actually misses my point.

My point would be that one probably needs a certain playing level and playstyle to be able to appreciate the benefits of more glue layers.

To me (and from what i hear and read also to some others too) the several glue layers feel like they add up to the sponge thicknesses and also resembles the dayz of 2.5mm sponges to a degree and regarding H3N using less layers makes the rubber more prone to bubbling.

In the end it all boils down to personal preferences, but saying that some pros don't know what they do, and were better off only using a single layer is completely delusional and small minded IMHO.
 
Last edited:
Der_Echte

In the end it all boils down to personal preferences, but saying that some pros don't know what they do, and were better off only using a single layer is completely delusional and small minded IMHO.

If you have in mind my position, than its a great misreading.
In all my posts I've said that one should use multilayer gluing only for a reason, but not just and only to assure good gluing.
Its very obvious the the OP doesn't have any reason to use multilayers as he doesn't like the extra weight, and its obvious that the OP would not benefit from multilayers.
How many times should I repeat one and the same without my words to be manipulated to a different meaning?
 
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,822
13,216
30,395
Read 27 reviews
I find it interesting that a thread about glue and layers of glue have this many answers haha ;) And now i am answering in it also haha. I do not think layers of glue do so much different. I glue one layer on each, and a friend glue two layers and both our rackets is fine to play with.

I agree with Echte that the level of play have anything to do with the glueing. I have a friend, that played for the junior national team for sweden and she do not know how to glue.

I disagree with Echte that fundementals, aspects of tabletennis, equipment or tactics should be ignored if the playing level is low. Proably alot of good players have more knowledge about this, but then there are alot of good tabletennis players with pretty strange technique and those that do not know much about tabletennis in general. I also think there is alot of coaches with alot of knowledge that are not so good at tabletennis themselves. This proably varies depending on individuals and it is hard to make a general statement. I always though Americans were pretty bad at tabletennis and did not know much. I do not know much about the playing level but i have learned through this forum that alot of americans have alot of knowledge about tabletennis.

Lula... you know that I am talking about situations such as a player who is TTR 900 who would never receive but 1 in 10 of Lula's serves trying to advise TTR1700-1900 level players on serve receive... this is why a TT online community has little respect of tolerance for that situation.

Maybe we have a different threshold of what low really means. Low to me is USATT 1000-1300, in some cases up to 1700. For you, maybe USATT 2000 is low. That is prolly 4 levels below your level, maybe more. There are a lot of USATT 2000 who have a solid understanding of TT and how to communicate it... and there are elite players who were low end pros who really suck at coaching.

Yup, in USA, we have a lot of self-taught players who are not so strong in the conventional fundamentals, but find a way to win poins, games and matches up to a certain level.

Yup, there are several coaches in USA who are not really elite amature players (who might be 2-3 levels below your level Lula.) Some of these coaches have a deep understanding of fundamentals and advanced tactics that would make them effective national or state coaches.

There are many Chinese elite amature players (who would be close to WR100 level when they got here to USA) who also know a system of structured hard work, study and tactics that would put them almost on that level... yet if any of these coaches plays matches in a tourney (some of them must play in tourneys to earn a little money, coaching doesn't pay much unless you are the owner and coach)… if the parents of the kids who take lessons from these coaches see the coach lose even one match (even if it is vs an equal level player) that parent loses respect for coach and there goes coaches income. Not a fun situation.

In General, I agree with your initial assessment that USA is pretty bad at TT in terms of the statistical middle ground of the 40-60 perentile… which would be 1300-1600 USATT... that level of player given the number of years or lessons they took and still that level would be a crying shame compared to Europe... but the top end of our amature system is pretty strong the last decade and improving.

Even Korea, a nation we respect for the numerous pro players... the average club player is 1300-1500 USATT and would need the maximum of 7 handicap points in a match (they would start match 7-0 vs you Lula) and still have a good chance to lose the match vs Lula... and the top end of the amature strength is mighty thin. Lula, you would likely be a strong Div National player, maybe if you gain .5 to 1 levels, a Champions league player... where you are too good for Div 1. Yet, Korea has a pro-style training structure that IDs kids early and they hire ex pros to turn the school gym into a hardcore pro training center.

You are right on both counts about Americans... some know dittilly squat (an expression for nothing) about TT and some know a lot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lula
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Oct 2016
1,883
1,583
3,807
Okay! I feel like americans Do not have great conditions to become really good since the sport Do not seem so big in the US and there are not so much structured training. But it feels like this are changing since it seems like alot of good asian players are moving there to coach. Do you think this Will be evident in the future? That the US have a good future in tabletennis because of this?
 
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,822
13,216
30,395
Read 27 reviews
Okay! I feel like americans Do not have great conditions to become really good since the sport Do not seem so big in the US and there are not so much structured training. But it feels like this are changing since it seems like alot of good asian players are moving there to coach. Do you think this Will be evident in the future? That the US have a good future in tabletennis because of this?

It is and has been evident if you look at the number of hardcore training clubs... where the club has a former elite player coaching with a strong structure and multiple kids training/growing...and the place is open every day training and playing.

I am not talking about a 4 table club that has one coach... unless it is a Korean dude ex-pro reading the riot act to 8 kids...

20 yrs ago, USA had 2-3 of these places.

Now, in 2108, I would say that number is around 60.

You could look at historical stats of the classes of kids, say ITTF Hopes, mini-cadet, cadet, and juniors... and look at how many kids in tose classes were in the 2000-2700 USATT rating range... from those days 20 yrs ago to now.

Back then, you had a handful... now you got too many to count.

For sure, the development of kids in these 4 classes is producing players that are doing better on the continent and internationally. It is night and day difference from 20 yrs ago, both with the "eye test" and recorded statistics data.

I would say in California alone, there are 20+ of these clubs... 2 hrs west of where I live, there are a dozen...

In SanDiego, your nations former WM champ... the one who did it at the earliest age ever (Stellan Bengston) setup a TT academy in San Diego... they got so many hundreds of kids to sign up, they had to refuse further entries into their program until they can move to an even huger facility... and that place has tables for kids to sit down and do homework while they wait on lessons.

So, it isn't just the Asian elite amateurs/ex-pros helping out my country, there are others too.

Yes, the current and future for an increasingly higher level of elite kids in the 4 classes looks better and better.

The problem with all this translating into more USA at pro level is that unless you make top 20 WR, you cannot make a living wage (unless maybe Bundesliga team hires you)… and it takes hundreds of thousands of USD just to crack WR250... so by the time kids get near these levels, the parents or kids themselves realize that they need to go to university to have any chance at a future and get out of full time training.

Maybe later, when USA can find a way to mobilize and organize the millions who casually play in basement or garage/patio... then schools start having tt as a sport... at that stage there would be a demand for high level ex players as coaches... then at that point more clubs and competition/demand for top coaches.... at that point an ex-elite player could command more than a living wage, just like other top coaches in other sports do... but those days may be long away.
 
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,822
13,216
30,395
Read 27 reviews
Also, you know very well that getting a player to increase 50 points of USATT level when they are already 2700-2750 is more than a level in itself.... very difficult to improve that degree unless player is still capable and is around the right situation.

There are numerous Chinese ex-elite players who come to USA and they were USATT 2800 level... pretty much a WR 80-100 level just a few years ago... and in China, after a decade or so of hard life TT training, the coaches called player in and informed player he has no future as a player in China... so when they are old enough to get away, they tryout USA.

Then said player does a few big tourneys and wows... then they get into full time coaching and drop two full levels the first year... they barely get paid enough to live in a shared room and eat... hope nothing goes wrong with body... parents pay $80 USD an hour for lessons for their kids... but most of this money never makes it to the coach... it pays to be a big-time club owner in an area with rich parents who train their warrior kids in TT with the best they can pay for...
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Oct 2017
240
85
564
I'm still waiting for langels email and whocarez to change his alias to a public profile

big talk guys should get public and certified, otherwise people just see them as trolling
You must have a hang up on public profiles ;) You also keep saying that some uknown guys are trying to change the opinion of "the world", this is certainly not the case. Actually my impression is that you were trying to change the opinion here that you need 2 layers or more since your pros and mentors do it.

You can use as many layers as you want, maybe they are relevant for adhesion in some cases, maybe not. Maybe they make some people feel bettter, maybe not. But for performance, I highly doubt it. But feel free to do the suggested blind test.

1 layer works, 2 layers work too. Do whatever you like, but please be careful with saying that since a pro or mentor does this or that, then it must be the right way. Probably a whole bunch of them do it differently too.

Otherwise than that, I am very much with Der_Echte on this.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: langel
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,822
13,216
30,395
Read 27 reviews
... Lula, it is great we get elite level players coming to US, but if there is no market, it is useless.

Right now, these training centers are filled with 90% plus of first generation or second generation foreigners who are already favorable to the sport of TT and want the best for their kid in USA for TT.

I challenge you to come to USA (don't take the challenge, it is an expression) and open up a TT club (your are an elite amateur player by USA standards) and see how long it takes to get 100 members for your new club...

I challenge you to make expenses after one year. (tough to do that)

I challenge you to grow your club WITHOUT foreigners (1st and 2nd generation) and try to grow a club with just who was living in the area or whose parents were born there...

Starting a club in a new area is a huge risk and difficult to get enough members and kids to train to make the club pay its way... then try to do that while excluding 90 percent of your market... damned difficult.

It is clearly the foreigners in USA who are propping up Table Tennis in the competitive amateur segment... if we didn't have all these foreigners coming to USA, we would be screwed, blued, and tattooed for table tennis.

Still, in many areas, we must drive 3 hours to get to a club.. and often that is a 1-2 time per week school gym rented place playing for 2 hours with the best person needing 6-7 points handicap vs you Lula.

Almost all the TT action is in larger cities with a huge foreign population (usually Asian).

You try to open up a club in an average USA city of 100,000 population, you wouldn't get more than 12 people in your club at the same time, even if you had a flashing neon sign of free beer and Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader dances...

I lived in a few of those cities and I was the only registered TT player in them.
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Oct 2016
1,883
1,583
3,807
Nice to hear that the tabletennis is going well in the US. Edit: after seeing your last post it still seems to be difficult. I also like that it seems that alot of adults play tabletennis in USA. I am thinking of doing a camp for adults. The possibility for developement as an adult is difficult in my city and maybe in sweden aswell.

We have had a hard time here in Sweden for several years, but my fellow coach said that studies show that all sports is going bad in sweden, but tabletennis is one of the sports that is growing the most.

I have a funny story about Stellan, or atleast i think so. At my first tabletennis camp in Falkenberg, Stellan was a coach. A guy injured his toe, so Stellan used a scissor to cut away the part of this guys shoe were the the toe were so he could still play. Must have been fun to tell the parents later haha. Good memories!
 
Last edited:
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,822
13,216
30,395
Read 27 reviews
Haha Lula funny story.

At the 2018 LA Open, I wore new TT show that were EU 42, I wear 42.5 or 43... and I had long toenails...

I played for four days (2 day early before tourney and 2 days during tourney). When I took off my shoes at the hotel around midnight... I saw that my big toenail on my right foot was totally separated and hanging on by a thread. I knew my toe was bothering me the last two days f that trip.

Haha, Stellan was prolly at that tourney (I defeated his student girl chopper who shoulda made the national hopes and mini cadet team) and I sure coulda used his scissors trick.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Lula
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
7,259
6,230
15,300
Read 3 reviews
You must have a hang up on public profiles ;)

you suggested maybe you will ask admin to change your name, I'm still awaiting, or have you chicken out??
And I just saw your big post with all questions. my answers are all typed in earlier, not sure why you read some and missed some. I really don't need to quote my quotes

if you read correctly, you can see langel is trying to teach me, and trying to get me to get my mentor to rethink
Don' you think that is rude of him?
At first I was being polite, but then he just continued as a troll

he sent me an email with his name, which club he belongs to, and his hours of gluing service
what a cheek, he still think he is a gluing master....
I guess if he really think he is a gluing master, he should share photos, videos, start youtube channel and add value to the TT community and lets his action do the talking, not his alias mouth.

Any ways, these "PHD" forummers with no credibity are really "completely delusional and small minded" as someone else pointed out.
Yes, my mentors taught me what I know. I also adapt with the trend of technology and equipment enhancements, I am not forcing my views to anyone, but rather receiving non stop trolling that I am doing a bad job for thousands of bats in my shops career and that my mentors (some who are world top 10 players) all must rethink....
If I want to use my mentors to shut langel up, I would just have quoted the names of who said what. But i'm not here to do this, but merely point out, there is more than 1 way to skin a cat and langel and who ever else must not be naive to think that there is only 1 way
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
7,259
6,230
15,300
Read 3 reviews
It is and has been evident if you look at the number of hardcore training clubs... where the club has a former elite player coaching with a strong structure and multiple kids training/growing...and the place is open every day training and playing.

I am not talking about a 4 table club that has one coach... unless it is a Korean dude ex-pro reading the riot act to 8 kids...

20 yrs ago, USA had 2-3 of these places.

Now, in 2108, I would say that number is around 60.

I think the number is around 100.

It was 60 something when I got back into the TT scene with my project in 2012.
I recall Larry did an article back them to state the qualifications of a "full time club" requires opening min 5 days a week, has X amount of tables and hire min 1 x full time coach. That article listed 60 something clubs
 
Top