Butterfly announces new Sping Sponge X

langel said:

1. The Spring Sponge is unique and we all agree with this. But why the hell the new sponge, declared to be "a thing never before" should cary the same name?

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Marketing. Butterfly is in a difficult position here (also quite enviable, I'll admit) where ten years into it, their technology is still the world standard. Do you wake up one day and tell people "right, this thing is past it now", we're moving in a totally different direction with [laser sponge or some such rubbish] while taking the risk it actually won't catch on? Would you let Tenergy become the new Mark V ("well it's not quite the latest tech, but we used to like it and you're not taking a big risk")? Not to mention, it is their flag-bearer we are taking about, not a niche like mid-pips or something, so there is more at stake than just "a rubber". The whole company's image depends on this.

Butterfly is following the Audi route here, if it is not broken, don't fix it but rather bring in small evolutions (which it'll also probably be in terms of behaviour, though too early to tell), that "X" - factor, for people to spend on while believing they merely have the latest version of what works best. Worst case scenario, people don't like it and you can discard it as a one off, falling back on your main product which you have never truly said was a thing of the past.

A complete overhaul is what you do when you have become an outsider, not when you have been ruling the market for ages.

FruitLoop said:

And it is not tacky or gas same topsheet as Tenergy?

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I think it's a fair assumption at this point based on the LARC and the fact that they've only announced a new sponge that the 3 new rubbers named Dignics (05, 64, 80) would be the same topsheets as Tenergy mounted on the improved spring sponge. After all, the Tenergy topsheets have been fairly unrivaled for 10+ years whereas other manufacturers have made advancements on the sponge front.

What the new rubbers could look like:

FruitLoop said:

Maybe with their new rubbers T05 will be reduced to £39.99 and the new ones will be £75.

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Don`t bet on that, I can assure you that will not be below the $80 price tag.

t95mwp said:

Don`t bet on that, I can assure you that will be below the $80 price tag.

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I think more likely the Tenergy price will stay the same and the new rubbers will just cost more

Tony's Table Tennis said:

I think more likely the Tenergy price will stay the same and the new rubbers will just cost more

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Yes. As long as BTY gets away with it prices will go up, virtually without limit. It should be understood that pricing upper limits have no relation whatsoever with production/sell cost (R&D/manufacturing/logistics/marketing), nor do lower limits have much to do with trite things such as minimal subsistence levels for the workforce involved. It's a cruel and stupid system, but that's what we ended up with.

It should also be noted that premium pricing itself is a considerable factor in brand strength. Value being created artificially, high pricelevels bring the perception of quality (and/or luxury) with them, regardless of product properties. They also come with a (to some) attractive feeling of exclusivity (often even explicitly marketed as such) by means of the price threshold, excluding the less wealthy - thus creating more value to the ‘us vs.them’ crowd. Build an absurd building in an absurd place, ask absurd prices for lavish appartments in it (donating one or two to a local despot or two for good measure), and the more absurd the prices the more the decadently rich living off the backs of the rest are bound to flock to it.

FruitLoop said:

If this is an "advance" on Tenergy (overdue after 10+ years), then isn't it weird they just released T05 hard now and not years ago? Probably their pros were using it years ago.

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The market had been saturated the past few years after the introduction of 40+. ESN overinvested while Butterfly let the dust settle.

yoass said:

Yes. As long as BTY gets away with it prices will go up, virtually without limit. It should be understood that pricing upper limits have no relation whatsoever with production/sell cost (R&D/manufacturing/logistics/marketing), nor do lower limits have much to do with trite things such as minimal subsistence levels for the workforce involved. It's a cruel and stupid system, but that's what we ended up with.

It should also be noted that premium pricing itself is a considerable factor in brand strength. Value being created artificially, high pricelevels bring the perception of quality (and/or luxury) with them, regardless of product properties. They also come with a (to some) attractive feeling of exclusivity (often even explicitly marketed as such) by means of the price threshold, excluding the less wealthy - thus creating more value to the ‘us vs.them’ crowd. Build an absurd building in an absurd place, ask absurd prices for lavish appartments in it (donating one or two to a local despot or two for good measure), and the more absurd the prices the more the decadently rich living off the backs of the rest are bound to flock to it.

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Butterfly currently have no rubbers which are not priced at a premium. Introducing a new premium set would keep alive their premium market, but reducing the older products (even slightly) would put those on a par with ESN offerings price wise and probably take larger market. The main reason butterfly aren't even more dominant in the rubber market is the huge swathe of players not willing to pay their prices. It depends how much they think that would harm their "premium", "the best" quality brand image.

FruitLoop said:

Butterfly currently have no rubbers which are not priced at a premium. Introducing a new premium set would keep alive their premium market, but reducing the older products (even slightly) would put those on a par with ESN offerings price wise and probably take larger market. The main reason butterfly aren't even more dominant in the rubber market is the huge swathe of players not willing to pay their prices. It depends how much they think that would harm their "premium", "the best" quality brand image.

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Analysts often talk about market share, but the actual thing the smarter companies pay attention to is profit share.

FruitLoop said:

Butterfly currently have no rubbers which are not priced at a premium...

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Sorry, but I'm unable to agree on this. Yes, they have a range of fancy premium priced products, but they also have quite a few 'cheapos'. Just depends what one is looking for.

The 'roundell' isn't at a premium price level.
The Rozena is discounted to $33.00 on every market except in Europe...

Same goes for blades.

I used to have a friend who changed his sponsor deal from Nittaku to BTY. To that time i was preferring Nittaku TT products, but my friend told me one thing: (which at first sounded a bit like brainwashing from a sect, but after a while and a whole bunch of burnt bucks i found out he wasn't that far off from reality)
"It's easy to spend a lot of money on TT products just to combine some bullcrap with some more bullcrap.
But it´s likely this won't happen with BTY which have their own R&D experts for ages and seem to know quite well what they're doing.
Never held one shitty manufactured product of them in my hands."

And actually i think i can very well agree on that.

I wonder if the pros all use t05 because its really the best over 10 years or because once you get used to something over 10 of playing, training and competition, your motion is so grooved in that any change is a huge detriment in competitiveness

Lightzy said:

I wonder if the pros all use t05 because its really the best over 10 years or because once you get used to something over 10 of playing, training and competition, your motion is so grooved in that any change is a huge detriment in competitiveness

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Seeing the high level players, they seem to adapt quite fluidly to equipment changes.

yoass said:

Seeing the high level players, they seem to adapt quite fluidly to equipment changes.

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Yeah, I wonder if that is true. After 10 years of training and competing daily, several times a day sometimes. Something tells me that no, the habit is too strong.

Suga D said:

Sorry, but I'm unable to agree on this. Yes, they have a range of fancy premium priced products, but they also have quite a few 'cheapos'.

The 'roundell' isn't at a premium price level.
The Rozena is discounted to $33.00 on every market except in Europe...

Same goes for blades.

I used to have a friend who changed his sponsor deal from Nittaku to BTY. To that time i was preferring Nittaku TT products, but my friend told me one thing: (which at first sounded a bit like brainwashing from a sect, but after a while i found ist he wasn't that far off from reality)
"It's easy to spend a lot of money in TT products just to combine bullcrap with bullcrap.

But this won't happen with BTY which have their own R&D for ages and seem to know quite well what they're doing.
Never held one shitty product of them in my hands."

And actually i think i can agree on that.

Click to expand...

They have a few rubbers which are very old which arguably aren't premium, but they are still more expensive than their equivalents. Look at sriver.

Lightzy said:

I wonder if the pros all use t05 because its really the best over 10 years or because once you get used to something over 10 of playing, training and competition, your motion is so grooved in that any change is a huge detriment in competitiveness

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I think this is partially true. I know a professional player and he is sponsored by Donic, after so many years he's still using the same blade, and despite so many rubbers coming out he still uses Bluefire. But if he was sponsored by BTY he would use Tenergy for sure.

langel said:

Yes, thats ok, but I'm just joking arroun about two things:

1. The Spring Sponge is unique and we all agree with this. But why the hell the new sponge, declared to be "a thing never before" should cary the same name?
2. Of course you are right that most players would never be at the Spring level. But with the satement that it is "a better rubber than a player" BTY should restrict all top players who have the habit to look at the rubber after a bad stroke. And beside that- its a psychological act of deifying.

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I was half joking about the wacky machine translation. Anyway, Butterfly has thus far stressed about the evolutionary prospect of Spring Sponge.

Spring Sponge Evolves.


After the jump, at the top it reads "The Evolved Spring Sponge"

進化したスプリング スポンジ

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Many translation engines have trouble identifying the phrases in quotes and the subject/object they modify. The passage in question doesn't refer directly to the Spring Sponge X itself but is instead about "continuing with sense of mission of "something never done before" and "better rubbers for players", the fruit of Butterfly's long-standing R&D.

"今までにないものを"、"選手により良いラバーを"という使命感のもと続けてきた、バタフライによる長年の研究開発が結実したものである。

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yoass said:

Seeing the high level players, they seem to adapt quite fluidly to equipment changes.

Click to expand...

Lightzy said:

Yeah, I wonder if that is true. After 10 years of training and competing daily, several times a day sometimes. Something tells me that no, the habit is too strong.

Click to expand...

Yeah, i think the truth lies in between these two extremes.
Being used to a product for a decade and then change to something else isn´t impossible, but this mostly happens in the competition free time, but in any case it will be a draw back ´cause muscle memory and timing will be off and take some time to adapt.

FruitLoop said:

They have a few rubbers which are very old which arguably aren't premium, but they are still more expensive than their equivalents. Look at sriver.

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Old? Rozena appeared on the markets 2 years ago. Plus maybe keep in mind that it´s also part of their image. As long as i can think back (which would be about 40 years back) they´ve always been the most expensive but at the same time also offered the best quality.

Suga D said:

Sorry, but I'm unable to agree on this. Yes, they have a range of fancy premium priced products, but they also have quite a few 'cheapos'. Just depends what one is looking for.

The 'roundell' isn't at a premium price level.
The Rozena is discounted to $33.00 on every market except in Europe...

Same goes for blades.

I used to have a friend who changed his sponsor deal from Nittaku to BTY. To that time i was preferring Nittaku TT products, but my friend told me one thing: (which at first sounded a bit like brainwashing from a sect, but after a while and a whole bunch of burnt bucks i found out he wasn't that far off from reality)
"It's easy to spend a lot of money on TT products just to combine some bullcrap with some more bullcrap.
But it´s likely this won't happen with BTY which have their own R&D experts for ages and seem to know quite well what they're doing.
Never held one shitty manufactured product of them in my hands."

And actually i think i can very well agree on that.

Click to expand...

I wish Rozena was $33 in Europe instead of 45€. It's $40 in the US currently.

Suga D said:

Yeah, i think the truth lies in between these two extremes.
Being used to a product for a decade and then change to something else isn´t impossible, but this mostly happens in the competition free time, but in any case it will be a draw back ´cause muscle memory and timing will be off and take some time to adapt.



Old? Rozena appeared on the markets 2 years ago. Plus maybe keep in mind that it´s also part of their image. As long as i can think back (which would be about 40 years back) they´ve always been the most expensive but at the same time also offered the best quality.

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Rozena is dearer than any ESN rubber.

I happen to play a Butterfly Gionis Carbon Off blade and am partly ashamed of it.

I hate the Butterfly rip-off on rubbers and will not buy a Butterfly rubber for a premium=nice way of saying fuc... expensive price whatsoever. I do not even think that the Tenergies are anything special - I once bought the 25 and had a used but in good condition 80 and tested the 05, but there is no wonder in it - I even rather did not like them.

Professional play Tenegry = they get it for free + they tune so it is probably great for tuning, but no reason for us amateurs to play untuned Butterfly rubbers...