Allwood for FH oriented and Composite for BH oriented players

eduardo1995filipe · Jan 6, 2019

FruitLoop said:
The range of blade speeds attacking pros use is very narrow. If any of you are familiar with the "frequency response" blade speed correlation, basically every pro uses something between 1300-1600 Hz. Almost no exceptions I can think of or find. Apart from defensive players of course. When commercial blades go from about 800-2200. No matter the style of attacking player. Essentially between Korbel/Acoustic - Mizutani ZLC speed. Something to think about! Amateurs using blades any faster than a Viscaria type unless they have a very specific blocking style or something is just foolhardy! They should probably not go faster than the low end of this range tbh! So many weak amateurs use blades faster than 50% of pros. A bit insane when you think about it.

It's true. I've already met some beginners(not youngsters, a bit more aged) with off+ blades and hard rubbers. One of them had a andro CSV off++ with 2 Rasanter R50. He said that if he plays, he has to control the fast equipment, he has to tame it. But above hitting the ball, he struggled to do most of the things.

FruitLoop · Jan 6, 2019

I've heard a world class coach say a pro using a blade faster than a Viscaria, like a Mizutani ZLC was stupid and that even for a professional player it was a bad idea. So from Korbel to Viscaria in speed, that's probably 90% of attacking pros blade choice right there. The ones with faster may be making a mistake even with their skills, according to some. I might do a tally tomorrow of the top 30 in male and female with known equipment.

RidTheKid · Jan 6, 2019

Pro don't use "insanely fast" blades since they can generate their own power easily thanks to great technique.

eduardo1995filipe · Jan 6, 2019

FruitLoop said:
I've heard a world class coach say a pro using a blade faster than a Viscaria, like a Mizutani ZLC was stupid and that even for a professional player it was a bad idea. So from Korbel to Viscaria in speed, that's probably 90% of attacking pros blade choice right there. The ones with faster may be making a mistake even with their skills, according to some. I might do a tally tomorrow of the top 30 in male and female with known equipment.

Yeah, at least I think Mizutani also has his BH a bit underdeveloped, maybe due to his fast blade. But in the cell ball he played more far from the table, now he plays closer.

But I heard that he changed the ZLC to ALC in his blade, but I have no source, so maybe it's because he's playing closer to the table and needs some "extra time", also to use more his BH actively?

729B2 · Jan 6, 2019

eduardo1995filipe said:
Was with Kiri core or Ayous core? You used the Viscaria side on BH? That's how I would use it

N301 backhand i had

Lula · Jan 6, 2019

RidTheKid said:
Pro don't use "insanely fast" blades since they can generate their own power easily thanks to great technique.

I think this is true, but i do think pros proably play with faster blades now with the new ball compared to before with the old ball. This will proably compensate for the slower ball, and i can also imagine that players go more for power than spin nowdays since the ball have less spin so maybe they choose a faste blade because of that. I also think a faster blade will suit the more and more counter topspin play. I can also imagine they choose faster blade to get more power so they maybe do not need to use the body more and get an injury.

But maybe it is what you say that they have so good techniqe that they do not need so fast blade. And maybe it also could be that they can use not crazy fast blade since they boost their rubbers alot. And maybe all of my reasoning above is wrong and they just boost the rubbers even more to compensate for the new ball.

I know that Jon Persson changed to a slower all wood blade compared to what he used before because he wanted a better return game. Maybe the serve and return game is so important that alot of players choose slower blades to be good at this and instead get a little less power in the ball.

RidTheKid · Jan 6, 2019

Service and return is 50% of the game for sure

QUOTE=Lula;255085]I think this is true, but i do think pros proably play with faster blades now with the new ball compared to before with the old ball. This will proably compensate for the slower ball, and i can also imagine that players go more for power than spin nowdays since the ball have less spin so maybe they choose a faste blade because of that. I also think a faster blade will suit the more and more counter topspin play. I can also imagine they choose faster blade to get more power so they maybe do not need to use the body more and get an injury.

But maybe it is what you say that they have so good techniqe that they do not need so fast blade. And maybe it also could be that they can use not crazy fast blade since they boost their rubbers alot. And maybe all of my reasoning above is wrong and they just boost the rubbers even more to compensate for the new ball.

I know that Jon Persson changed to a slower all wood blade compared to what he used before because he wanted a better return game. Maybe the serve and return game is so important that alot of players choose slower blades to be good at this and instead get a little less power in the ball.[/QUOTE]

Lula · Jan 6, 2019

It is very true that serve and return is important! i feel like my problem against better players often is the serve and return.

Here are some examples how important it is to have a good serve:

I used to play in the same training group as a guy with really good serves. He played swedish highest league "pingisligan" when there were games to best of 3 sets. Very often he won the first set because the other player could not return his serve, so he had a very good opportunity to win the game because of the serve.

Per Gerell also have a very good serve and win alot because of it. The guy can barely play backhand, but get alot of easy returns where he can run and play his good forehand. In the euro championship against Schlager year 2011 it seems like he almost only won because of the serve. Look at that video! pretty crazy.

In my hometown it used to play a middle aged guy that used to be a pro in germany for many years ago. He never practiced so he was not very good anymore. But he had crazy good serves. He throw the ball high in the air and had very good acceleration with the wrist. So he won over pretty good players that practiced more regurlary because they could not return his serve. Many times they could not return it at all and sometimes the return was bad so he had a great opportunity to kill the ball. I do not think he could have become a pro today because he can not hide the serve and serve 5 serves in a row.

He Zhi Wen is alos impressive. An old man, has he always been old? it seems so. In his old age he still beat younger top players much because of his good serve.

We can not forget Waldner! Great serves! Do you think the chinese today would have beaten waldner if he could hide the serve and serve 5 serves in a row? Maybe it is to little spin with this ball. It would be interesting to see players like Ma Long and Fan Zhendong in the era with the small ball and hidden serves, how well they would do. Proably they could adapt pretty well. Much more finesse before, so much power power power, pang pang pang nowdays.

Do you have any examples of great servers?

RidTheKid · Jan 6, 2019

I re-watched the final in Barcelona 92 and it was a fast sport back then too! That 38 mm ball was like a bullet. I don't think we would be able to even see the ball if they used 38 mm today.

Gerell have some really illegal serves though

Watch Ma Long return LGL's old style serves (youtube), he does it without effort. Surely, it's in the practice hall without nerves, but still.

Part of Waldners success was his great serves, they were probably more hidden than anyone elses back then. But JO also had a great head on him, chess player. Waldner actually has minus stats against every chinese he met, he lost more than he won. But he won some important ones

Timo Boll, Ma Long. Subtle variations with the same motions. All they need is a return that is an inch too high and it's good night.

Lula said:
It is very true that serve and return is important! i feel like my problem against better players often is the serve and return.

Here are some examples how important it is to have a good serve:

I used to play in the same training group as a guy with really good serves. He played swedish highest league "pingisligan" when there were games to best of 3 sets. Very often he won the first set because the other player could not return his serve, so he had a very good opportunity to win the game because of the serve.

Per Gerell also have a very good serve and win alot because of it. The guy can barely play backhand, but get alot of easy returns where he can run and play his good forehand. In the euro championship against Schlager year 2011 it seems like he almost only won because of the serve. Look at that video! pretty crazy.

In my hometown it used to play a middle aged guy that used to be a pro in germany for many years ago. He never practiced so he was not very good anymore. But he had crazy good serves. He throw the ball high in the air and had very good acceleration with the wrist. So he won over pretty good players that practiced more regurlary because they could not return his serve. Many times they could not return it at all and sometimes the return was bad so he had a great opportunity to kill the ball. I do not think he could have become a pro today because he can not hide the serve and serve 5 serves in a row.

He Zhi Wen is alos impressive. An old man, has he always been old? it seems so. In his old age he still beat younger top players much because of his good serve.

We can not forget Waldner! Great serves! Do you think the chinese today would have beaten waldner if he could hide the serve and serve 5 serves in a row? Maybe it is to little spin with this ball. It would be interesting to see players like Ma Long and Fan Zhendong in the era with the small ball and hidden serves, how well they would do. Proably they could adapt pretty well. Much more finesse before, so much power power power, pang pang pang nowdays.

Do you have any examples of great servers?

FruitLoop · Jan 7, 2019

Interesting Jon Persson slowed his blade down in p ball era when most do the opposite. What blade does he use now?

I'd love to see a pro, like a young Chinese, Wang Chuqin or whoever, use a Grubba All+ or Applegren Allplay in a match. Just to see what that technique does with a blade like that. I often wonder if a lot of pros are using too fast equipment nevermind amateurs. How often is a pro unable to penetrate really? I see modern attackers crush weak balls with unreturnable power with a defensive blade!

Lightzy · Jan 7, 2019

I think I recall Timo Boll saying that the chinese use equipment so ridiculously fast that if they used his setup (TB ALC with T05) they'd struggle to get the ball over the net, or something weird like that.

FruitLoop · Jan 7, 2019

Ma Long used to use a Nittaku Violin! Was speed glue that much faster than boosted H3?

eduardo1995filipe · Jan 13, 2019

FruitLoop said:
Ma Long used to use a Nittaku Violin! Was speed glue that much faster than boosted H3?

Would like to know that also! I've started to play around September 2006, but I was learning do play and I never had and tested speed glued equipment. Don't know that sensation also eheh

Lula · Jan 13, 2019

eduardo1995filipe said:
Would like to know that also! I've started to play around September 2006, but I was learning do play and I never had and tested speed glued equipment. Don't know that sensation also eheh

Good for you! I think alot of young players, including me would have become better players if we did not speedglued. It was fast and fun but i do think alot of players made their developement worse since the rackets became to fast and it was harder to learn the strokes. And it was time consuming! But it was very nice socially to glue, stand there and talk alittle before the practice haha

eduardo1995filipe · Jan 14, 2019

Lula said:
Good for you! I think alot of young players, including me would have become better players if we did not speedglued. It was fast and fun but i do think alot of players made their developement worse since the rackets became to fast and it was harder to learn the strokes. And it was time consuming! But it was very nice socially to glue, stand there and talk alittle before the practice haha

Yeah I remember the senior players of my team speedgluing every pratice and it had a very strong smell!! Yeah you're right! But at least with speed glue theoretically you could play fast with a slow allwood blade that could give you feel, I hindered my development in another way, fast rubbers with fast blade too early x)

NextLevel · Jan 14, 2019

Lula said:
I think this is true, but i do think pros proably play with faster blades now with the new ball compared to before with the old ball. This will proably compensate for the slower ball, and i can also imagine that players go more for power than spin nowdays since the ball have less spin so maybe they choose a faste blade because of that. I also think a faster blade will suit the more and more counter topspin play. I can also imagine they choose faster blade to get more power so they maybe do not need to use the body more and get an injury.

But maybe it is what you say that they have so good techniqe that they do not need so fast blade. And maybe it also could be that they can use not crazy fast blade since they boost their rubbers alot. And maybe all of my reasoning above is wrong and they just boost the rubbers even more to compensate for the new ball.

I know that Jon Persson changed to a slower all wood blade compared to what he used before because he wanted a better return game. Maybe the serve and return game is so important that alot of players choose slower blades to be good at this and instead get a little less power in the ball.

What blade did Jon Persson switch to?

Lula · Jan 14, 2019

NextLevel said:
What blade did Jon Persson switch to?

I do not know him personally, i just had him as a coach at a training Camp and i did not bother to look or ask what he changed to. If you google it seems like he plays with Hadraw SR, which might be true. I also found it interesting that he tried Tenergy Hard and did not like it. He really showed me the importance of exploding at impact of the shot, and get energy in the ball with a compact fast stroke. Really good acceleration, esecially backhand was impressive.

He was really helpful and seemed like a really nice guy so if you want to know for sure he will proably answer you if you try to contact him.

Allwood for FH oriented and Composite for BH oriented players

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads