Improve my FH topspin

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Thank you guys.. but when i try to lower the blade (vs backspin balls) how can i rech the 3 (thinkingthe ball as a clock)? My blade is more or less 45° so the point of contact is around 1/2. So i open the plate triing to rotate to give more power and i cant find the righ movements.

When you make a change like what we're talking about it will feel weird at first and you'll miss often. But if you commit yourself and keep practicing that motion you'll learn what your body and wrist need to do to make a good shot.

Your blade angle of 45° is why you have to swing so vertically and not forward. It's also why you're missing the ball. I only know this because I've always done the same thing and it's hard to change (but very rewarding when you have an understanding and your loop works well) :)
 
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I think you are doing okay, i think the motion is rather okay and you are getting some balls over the net. I think you need to try to recognize when the balls are going over the net and try to do the same. When you are missing something have gone wrong.

I disagree with some above that you need to swing more forward and work more with the hips and body.
I think it is correct that you need to bend the legs, but rotating the hips is more for a harder more powerful shot and i think you should start by making a soft spin opening.

Like i said it is important to bend your legs, because then you will automatically come more under the ball and it will be easier to lift up.

So bend the legs, relax the arm so it will just hang by your leg so it becomes more extended, wait for the ball and accelerate with the forearm, so you get an explosive motion and try to end with the racket so you have a 90 degree angle between your arm and forearm. The motion should be upward, with an open angle of the racket against backspin. I often joke with my students that the shot against backspin is almost like you stand relaxed at the bus stop then see your crush and you put up the arm and wave to say hi. It is almost the same motion. You may need to close the angle and swing more forward if you want a harder shot but this is not necessary at the moment.

If you loop out, then it was not as much backspin as you thought and you need to swing more forward.
If you loop in the net, it is either that you start with the racket to hight, swing to much forward or do the just mention things correct but your acceleration is to slow.

When you put the balls in the net i think it is mostly because you start with the racket to high, it is almost like try to smash or block a backspin ball, the spin will make the ball go down. And also that you do not accelerate with the forearm, you are almost just lifting the elbow at the moment. Spin comes from the forearm, so without acceleration there you will not get much spin. I also think you could try to do a little more explosive motion, with more acceleration. You may try to do a little shorter stroke since i think it is harder to get an explosive motion with a longer stroke. A explosive motion is not as necessary at topspin since it is already spin in the ball.

I think that technique is very subjective, and the most important thing against backspin is that you can open and get the ball over the net. I think the most important thing regardless of how the motion looks like is that you need to accelerate with the forearm and have an explosive motion against backspin. Once again i think it is very important that you try to feel for yourself when the ball is going in, try to notice what you are doing and try to do the same again. And when you miss try to understand what have just happened, what went wrong. I also think that it may be easier for you to do a correct stroke if you watch good players live or on video and see how they are doing it and try to copy.

Good luck!
 
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So if i understand well... the bat angle is a little bit open vs. Backspin balls, and my arm follow a higher trejectory. I dont have to change the bat angle during this.
I need also to bend my knees to start lower. Then must i keep the same height or stand a little? Because i find difficult to rotate my waist when my knees are bended. Thank you.
 
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So if i understand well... the bat angle is a little bit open vs. Backspin balls, and my arm follow a higher trejectory. I dont have to change the bat angle during this.
I need also to bend my knees to start lower. Then must i keep the same height or stand a little? Because i find difficult to rotate my waist when my knees are bended. Thank you.

I think some players, or atleast very good players have a more closed angle against backspin because that forces them to accelerate really well or they can have that closed angle because they accelerate really well. I think that if you are just going to loop the ball in soft with spin, it is good enough to have an open racket angle. You can try this for yourself, if you have a closed racket angle the ball will go down almost hitting your side of the table. But i think you already have a pretty good racket angle.

You do not have to bend your legs, but i think it will be much much easier. I think some people tend to stand a little to be able to lift the ball over the net. But it would be difficult to move at the next ball if you are a standing straight.

Why it is difficult to rotate the waist when your knees are bend? Do not focus so much on the waist.

I think you maybe missed my point and focus to much on the wrong things. What you mention is important but i think it is most important for you to relax your arm, lower it, do not just lift the elbow but accelerate with the forearm and try to have an pretty explosive motion.

Try to work on it for a day or two and post a video again! But like i said before technque is pretty subjective and if you are able to lift the ball against backspin and hit the table, then you are doing something correct. The technique do not always need to be perfect, if you get the result you want it is already pretty good.
 
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Ok, i will focus on my forearm and i will block my waist for now.
And what about my general gameplay, what do you think about it?

have you posted videos of your general gameplay?

About the forearm.. my shoulder should be relaxed or do i have to actuate it? I mean.. must i bend only the elbow?

Try to relax and work with the forearm. I do not think you should move the shoulder so much. I find it hard to just move the shoulder.

You need more rotation from you waist and thighs rather than just dipping down on one thigh and then straightening up.

I do not think that is necessary if he just want to loop the ball in safe with a soft topspin against backspin. I think it is much more important to focus on the forearm. I do not think he need to use the waist so much against backpin, maybe if he want to loop hard which i think is overkill at the moment. But i do agree that the waist is important for the power if he wants to kill the ball, when he steps out and have the time and room to play a more powerful shot with the body.

But i think they are rotating much less nowdays with the waist and especially with the legs/knees since we do not have the time to stand forehandfeet as much as before so it is much more difficult to rotate and have the time for it when we play so fast and as much backhand and countertopspin as we do today.

But then again, regarding the waist on backspin and topsin. Technique is very subjective i think, and alot of players play very different so it are not so many wrong and rights. So it is okay to have different opinions. In my opinion Schlagers technique were not very nice and he may be the last european world champion? so it worked pretty good for him.
 
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Yes i uploaded 4 min of one match.. here the link again.
At the end i think i placed some good topspins vs. Blocks.

https://youtu.be/dyANbzD9BfE

I am not a pro or a full time coach so i do not know if i am qualified to give advice, but i have played for maybe over 15 years and been a part time coach for almost 10 years so i might know something that can help you.

I think the best thing you guys can do is to join a club and work on the basics. It is difficult to get help online how you should play and it is important to have somewhat the correct techique from the start. If you have the wrong technique and practice you are then learning and becoming safe with the wrong technique which will be hrd to change later. But then again technique is not everything but still important.

I can try to go through some basics.

The grip: You should hold the racket like you are shaking hand. you want to try to have a neutral grip. You want too have the loose skin in the middle of the racket. If you have room between the middle of the blade and between your thumb or on the other side you are holding either a little backhand grip or forehand grip. Hard to explain in text. A neutral grip will make it easier to do both forehand and backhand.

The footwork: you want to have bend legs so you can use your muscles. With straigh legs you do not use the muscles. You want to be on the front of your feet, on the toes and try to work with small steps. You want to have the legs a little more wider than yoyr shoulders. When you play backhand you want the legs to be pararell, and when youplay forehand you want the left leg a little in front of the right so you can use the body in the shots. You should be almost an extended forearm away from the table or something like that.

On all the shots it is important to wait for the ball to come to the racket. THis will make the shot safe, if you miss the ball you have proably started the swing to early and have not waited for the ball.

Some of the big secrets in my opinion is: Play the ball onto the table: It is also important to always try to play a pace where the ball always go in at the table. this will make you become safe and better because you get to practice the shot more.
Always move the legs so you only do one kind of forehand and one kind of backhand:this will make you safe since you only need to practice on not so many shots. It is harder if you play several different shots.

The serve: hold just with pointing finger and thumb to be able to loosely move the wrist. you can hit over, under, on one side or the other side on the ball and by doing that create different spin. Try to hit the ball fast, faster thin hit with the wrist equals more spin. If you want to serve short you should aim for the net, and long for your white line.

Backhand: try to start by the stomach and hit forward. At all the shots you almost want to point with the racket where you want the ball to go. Try to end the racket with the forehand side facing upwards. This is important because if you do this you have hit over the ball and you will create a little topspin which make it more safe. A common mistake on the backhand is that you start to high and hit downvards.

Forehand: is harder to explain in text and do as a beginner. Try to start infront of your head or your nose then move the elbow back a little to the side of your body and then back to the start again. The elbow should always be infront of your body, it should not be behind. Try hitting the ball infront of you. Where you hit the ball and the legs with the left little infron should almost form a traingle. With the top where you hit the ball and the bottom is the legs. Try to extend your arms, almost somewhere there you want to hit the ball. You always want to move your legs so you make this triangle. common mistakes is hitting behind the body or to far after your nose/head, or starting the swing to early as mention before.

Backspin: Do forehand and backhand as above but have the racket angle facing upwards. Do a short stroke, almost like a lenght of a banana. faster thin hit equals more spin. take the ball early. common mistakes is to long of a stroke.

Topspin: it is important to try to learn topspin early, because this make it much more safe. The ball will go in an arch down on to the table. Easiest way to explain is to do as forehand backhnad as explained above but close the angle of the racket. By doing so you will hit ovver the ball and create spin. The spin comes from forearm and wrist so try to accelerate with that to create spin. more acceleration creates more spin.

Forehand topspin: Like explained before. Spin comes from forearm, power from waist and legs. Closer to the table you obly have time to use the arm. Further away you can use the body to do a more powerful stroke by using the body. Try seeing the arm, waist and, knees like a hinge on the door. When you open it, all the hinges move together, like the arm, knees and legs should be doing. Common mistakes is pushing the arm forward and not swining it. Think of a golfswing, boxing punch or how a discus is thrown. Think how you would do if you would throw the racket as far as way as possible.

Backhand topspin: Easy explained is that the backhand loop is like a frisbee throw.
Try to have the elbow infron of your body and have it steady. Then work with wrist and forearm, and try to accelerate and snap the ball. More wrist closer to the table and more forearm further away. Common mistakes is have the elbow to close to the body and push the ball forward. Another mistake is taking the ball to early, by doing this you get no power, also common mistak on the forehand.

Topspin against backspin: easily explained is that against topspin you want to have the racket high, angle closed and loop with at motion forward.

Against backspin you want an open angle, drop the racket low and loop with a motion upward. need a more explsoive motion compared to loopp againsit topspin. Your friend miss yout push in the beginning since he have the racket to high and hit forward. Try to read my older posts for more clarifcation.

Smash: open angle and try to have short contact with the ball. Flat hit.
Block: take the ball early and do not do much. Always elbow infront body. Try to have the racket high and in the middle. No backswing.

I have surely missed alot but this is atleast a beginning.

I think your technique looks okay for only been playing one year. I think you guys should try to vary the serve a little more, by trying differents serves as i mention above. Now it seems like yoy do the same serve all the time. I also think you should try to play in shorts so you could move better. For your developement i think you would develop faster if you try to play very easy exercises instead of matches. Like forehand forehand, backhand backhand, one in both, or two in both. Or short serve then open. Try to focus on the technique and the secrets i shared in the beginning.

Good luck!
 
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I think there is a danger in thinking looping against backspin is very different to looping against topspin. They are essentially the same but with adjustments for the spin. Not two different techniques. I think some people get too caught up in the differences and the minutiae and it cripples them. Obviously you must do something differently to adjust, but this is something for your brain to work out with experience. You get lower and hit more vertically yes, but it's the same technique.

Lula, great posts, but regarding the slow spin, if I watch pros slow spin (Timo the best example for me), they still explode with the hips and body, it's not just arm, the difference is in the level of brush of the ball. Timo still swings fast and explosively, just less so and with more brush. I am not sure I have seen anyone use a vastly different technique for a soft slow loop as a fast one. It's just subtle adjustments mainly to the contact.
 
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I think there is a danger in thinking looping against backspin is very different to looping against topspin. They are essentially the same but with adjustments for the spin. Not two different techniques. I think some people get too caught up in the differences and the minutiae and it cripples them. Obviously you must do something differently to adjust, but this is something for your brain to work out with experience. You get lower and hit more vertically yes, but it's the same technique.

Lula, great posts, but regarding the slow spin, if I watch pros slow spin (Timo the best example for me), they still explode with the hips and body, it's not just arm, the difference is in the level of brush of the ball. Timo still swings fast and explosively, just less so and with more brush. I am not sure I have seen anyone use a vastly different technique for a soft slow loop as a fast one. It's just subtle adjustments mainly to the contact.

Yeah, mostly different angle and direction.

Yes, you are proably correct. I agree that they use the body, But i Do not know how much Waist they are using. I will have to look at Timo boll! It would proably be pretty unsafe to only use the arm and hard to get the ball over the net.

But I think they use even more body and waist when they are looping harder on backspin.

But i still think that as a beginner and for must of us the acceleration of the forearm and bending the legs is way more important than the use of the waist when looping a soft topspin against backspin.

I can imagine that you are correct about the waist and that it comes pretty naturally if you bend the legs and let the arm go down then swing upwards. But i Do not think about it so much, that We actually using the Waist.

Is is great with a discussion so you need to really think about the technique and the advice you are givning.

It would be fun to se one more video after some practice and see then how it looks.
 
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I think different things work for different people. Some people get it thinking about weight transfer, that didn't work for me, others rotation (worked much better), others about the hip thrusting and leg pushing off the floor etc. But the result ends up the same. It's all about cueing in a way that works to get the body to do what it needs to.
 
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The one thing that stands out to me is your wrist. As far as I can see you bring the bat backwards, or to the right depending on the perspective, as if playing an inside out forehand. Basically, you do what the red arrow does:
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Pardon the wrong sport :) Couldn't find a pic with shakehand grip viewed from above. It's more difficult to control the ball that way. You wanna straighten your wrist so that the blade continues the line your forearm makes. Check this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P_zfR4uP1c
Note the wrist angle of Mr. Liqin. It's straight on most of the shots. He kinda bends it like you do when he plays to the right corner but even then the bend is not nearly as extreme.
 
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Lula is posting a lot of wisdom that will only make sense to someone who already gets it. Let us hope OP improves a couple of things and posts again. Personally I find commenting on these things with my limited time difficult. The thing I liked that Lula pointed out is that for a year of practice this is not a bad stroke. We often forget that learning takes time and no one gets a great stroke without putting in time. In fact timing backspin is one of the hardest things in table tennis and it takes a while to get efficient at adjusting consistently to the spin on the ball.
 
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Lula is posting a lot of wisdom that will only make sense to someone who already gets it. Let us hope OP improves a couple of things and posts again. Personally I find commenting on these things with my limited time difficult. The thing I liked that Lula pointed out is that for a year of practice this is not a bad stroke. We often forget that learning takes time and no one gets a great stroke without putting in time. In fact timing backspin is one of the hardest things in table tennis and it takes a while to get efficient at adjusting consistently to the spin on the ball.

I also wonder how much it helps anyone. I remember that you, or was it someone else that said that it is hard to explain technique and strokes in text and i agree with that. It is proably hard to understand it aswell in text, like you said, it make sense if you already understand it.

People here proably need to read the tips they are given but also try to notice it in videos of good players and videos by coaches that show how to do all the different strokes. Maybe then it would be easier to understand what is said in the text. And the easiest and proably fastest way to become better is to join a club where a good coach can help you with the technique live. As a coach i find the easiest way to help students is to simple hold their hand and show them how to do the stroke. And that is difficult over the internet haha :)
 
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