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    1. Top | #1
      Alexwang is offline
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      flicks and some advance skills

      For non pros, do we have to use bh flicks and some other advanced skills to win the game? or we should just play allroundly like vladi?

    2. Top | #2
      Lightzy is offline
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      Against people who can play those shots you have to be good with those shots also.
      Even if you don't use it much, you'll at least have a good understanding of when that shot is coming at you, and how you can avoid it or play against it etc.

    3. Top | #3
      Lula is offline
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      I think it depends who you play against and how you want to play. If you get short backspin balls it is difficult to flip the ball so that might not be necessary. Against these type of balls it is almost easier to push back short or push long. Also depend on playing style, Vladimir can push long alot since he have a very good blockning game. If you Do not have this Maybe you need to flip more.

      But Before almost No one Did the banana flip and that worked out okay to. But it Will be harder for the opponent if you can Do it since they Will Will deal with more different kind of balls. But a playing style is important and if flip Do not suit your game Maybe it is not necessary.

      Against topspinsidespin and Nospin balls i think you should Do flips since it is proably pretty easy at these kind of balls and also the best option.

      What is other advance skills?

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    5. Top | #4
      Loopadoop is offline
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      First, do the shots very well that come naturally to you, add strong blocking which is easy to learn, then depending how your overall game transcends to a playing level, you may need to acquire certain additional skills to advance to your goal.

    6. Top | #5
      Alexwang is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lightzy View Post
      Against people who can play those shots you have to be good with those shots also.
      Even if you don't use it much, you'll at least have a good understanding of when that shot is coming at you, and how you can avoid it or play against it etc.
      i recently found that some younger guys like to use flicks to start attacking early, but this generally means more errors, and they also turn back spins and side spins into top spins for me. i think if they cant finish during the shot, they actually helping me get into rallies earlier , which i have more chance. lol

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    8. Top | #6
      Alexwang is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Loopadoop View Post
      First, do the shots very well that come naturally to you, add strong blocking which is easy to learn, then depending how your overall game transcends to a playing level, you may need to acquire certain additional skills to advance to your goal.
      that is what im saying. quallity basic shots are foundemental and makes vladi still.in the game at senior ago

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    10. Top | #7
      Alexwang is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lula View Post
      I think it depends who you play against and how you want to play. If you get short backspin balls it is difficult to flip the ball so that might not be necessary. Against these type of balls it is almost easier to push back short or push long. Also depend on playing style, Vladimir can push long alot since he have a very good blockning game. If you Do not have this Maybe you need to flip more.

      But Before almost No one Did the banana flip and that worked out okay to. But it Will be harder for the opponent if you can Do it since they Will Will deal with more different kind of balls. But a playing style is important and if flip Do not suit your game Maybe it is not necessary.

      Against topspinsidespin and Nospin balls i think you should Do flips since it is proably pretty easy at these kind of balls and also the best option.

      What is other advance skills?
      good point, some other skills like xuxin's forehand sidespin flicks? he doesnt use it anymore so i guess it is unnecessary.

    11. Top | #8
      langel is offline
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      Every player uses a different set of instrumentarium and every player concentrates more on some instruments.
      Some players may win using with great effect fewer techniques, others rely more on diversity using many techniques.
      There is no unnecesary technique.
      It reminds me that recently after I changed from O5A to O7A I unconsciously began to use in some particular occasions my long before forgotten "under-the-armpit spike".
      Everything you and your setup are comfortable with maybe usefull and helpfull, even if you don't ue it very often. The question is to be able to use it when needed.

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    13. Top | #9
      yogi_bear is offline
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      More skills mean more weapons in the arsenal to be used on specific part of the game.

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    15. Top | #10
      Xylit is offline
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      The most important skill: Being able to return a decent ball in every situation of the game.

      As long as you keep the ball in game and your opponent really has to play winners to make points you'll be able to compete with most decent amateur players. If you add a bit of spin variation, decent serves, spinny and safe topspins here and there you'll be a damn good amateur player already. No need for fancy stuff like BH flicks. Of course they can even make you better but most amateurs make more unforced errors with that than points and therefore it is bs. It can be fun using it though

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    17. Top | #11
      Suga D is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Alexwang View Post
      good point, some other skills like xuxin's forehand sidespin flicks? he doesnt use it anymore so i guess it is unnecessary.
      I don't think there is one single skill that can really be called unnecessary.
      Of course if it doesn't fit well to one's playing style might leave a question if it makes sense practicing it a lot, but as yogi_bear wrote, more weapons in the arsenal makes one far less predictable and as langel wrote it's always helpful to succesfully execute it when needed, especially against players on par with your level.
      Many times it's the small things that decide between loss and victory.

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    19. Top | #12
      gman4911 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Alexwang View Post
      For non pros, do we have to use bh flicks and some other advanced skills to win the game? or we should just play allroundly like vladi?
      It comes down to a match up of skills needed to stay in the game and not get blown away. For example, there is a woman who plays in the weekly league at my club. She plays a fast and aggressive hitting style. Way too fast for me, there's no question she can out rally me. The only way I can beat her is to serve short to force her to push so as to not allow her to start a hitting rally. When she serves, I have to BH flick her serves aggressively and away from her power zones. If I did not do those things, she has and will destroy me with her hard hitting.

      In general, I find that serving short and using the BH flick allows me to have a chance to beat higher levels players than myself. I may not win but at least I won't get blown out.

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    21. Top | #13
      langel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by gman4911 View Post
      It comes down to a match up of skills needed to stay in the game and not get blown away. For example, there is a woman who plays in the weekly league at my club. She plays a fast and aggressive hitting style. Way too fast for me, there's no question she can out rally me. The only way I can beat her is to serve short to force her to push so as to not allow her to start a hitting rally. When she serves, I have to BH flick her serves aggressively and away from her power zones. If I did not do those things, she has and will destroy me with her hard hitting.

      In general, I find that serving short and using the BH flick allows me to have a chance to beat higher levels players than myself. I may not win but at least I won't get blown out.
      Thats ok, you have found an effective strategy and thats great.
      Though, as this strategy is focused more on the short term progress of the game, I would advice to try, if alive after the 3rd ball, looping low and mid-deep with ball sinking near the edge, or cut it the same way. It will not allow your oponent to smash you sharp and at some point may give you an advantage to attack a higher fished ball.

    22. Top | #14
      Ilia Minkin is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by yogi_bear View Post
      More skills mean more weapons in the arsenal to be used on specific part of the game.
      The issue with this is that a "weapon" is only useful if it is sharp. And it takes a lot of time to sharpen a shot. So if you practice 5 times per week 6 hours per day, you can afford to have both forehand and banana flicks plus even strawberry. But if you play twice a week you will probably will have time to develop one kind of flick at best which is fine, you can still go a long way with it. Otherwise, if you try to master everything with limited time, you will get nothing.

      By the way, in one match analysis done by a former Russian pro player he said that Vladi has a very deadly forehand flick. So most players avoid playing short to his forehand as it is too dangerous.

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    24. Top | #15
      pgpg is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ilia Minkin View Post
      ...
      By the way, in one match analysis done by a former Russian pro player he said that Vladi has a very deadly forehand flick. So most players avoid playing short to his forehand as it is too dangerous.
      Do you have a link for this - sounds very interesting.

    25. Top | #16
      langel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ilia Minkin View Post
      The issue with this is that a "weapon" is only useful if it is sharp. And it takes a lot of time to sharpen a shot. So if you practice 5 times per week 6 hours per day, you can afford to have both forehand and banana flicks plus even strawberry. But if you play twice a week you will probably will have time to develop one kind of flick at best which is fine, you can still go a long way with it. Otherwise, if you try to master everything with limited time, you will get nothing.

      By the way, in one match analysis done by a former Russian pro player he said that Vladi has a very deadly forehand flick. So most players avoid playing short to his forehand as it is too dangerous.
      I absolutelly agree that with the modern balls and rubbers the sharper answer is a winner to most qestions, as the sharper return eliminates most of the incomming spin problems, and rallyes get longer with speed and distance encrease, counters are more effective on harder attacks, etc...
      ...if you are not Ma Long, but Harimoto.
      But I think that still some techniques may prove while not so sharp, but just appropriate for the case, every situation has a milder killing answer, but, allas, we are trying macho all the time.
      Last edited by langel; 1 Week Ago at 09:57 PM.

    26. Top | #17
      yogi_bear is offline
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      How sharp. Is your sharp? If i will follow your line of logic then i will not just use every offensive shot because it is not well developed if you do not practice it. What is the use of playing then? Sure you may play 1 or 2x a week so what? Why will it keep you from practicing a certain shot? In the first place if you compete why woukd you just practice 2x a week? You reap what you sow. Do not expect something out of mediocrity but at the same time you have the option to enjoy the game whike developing your strokes no matter how slow it is.

      Quote Originally Posted by Ilia Minkin View Post
      The issue with this is that a "weapon" is only useful if it is sharp. And it takes a lot of time to sharpen a shot. So if you practice 5 times per week 6 hours per day, you can afford to have both forehand and banana flicks plus even strawberry. But if you play twice a week you will probably will have time to develop one kind of flick at best which is fine, you can still go a long way with it. Otherwise, if you try to master everything with limited time, you will get nothing.

      By the way, in one match analysis done by a former Russian pro player he said that Vladi has a very deadly forehand flick. So most players avoid playing short to his forehand as it is too dangerous.

    27. Top | #18
      Ilia Minkin is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by pgpg View Post
      Do you have a link for this - sounds very interesting.
      It was in the course here: https://veb.artemutochkin.ru/tactic

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    29. Top | #19
      Lula is offline
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      I kind of agree with illia, and feel that he is misunderstood or is it it me that read it differently. I think We should focus on developing our strengths in first hand because that is What We use in games and What We win matches with. It is true that We almost Do not have time to practice everything and become good at therefore it is better to become better at What you are already good at ans use in games. But it is also good to be able to Do all kind of shots to make it harder for the opponent ans i think higher level players can Do all shots, But just better or worse. I also find it very fun to learn new shots.

      Do not know about vladis forehand flip. But it is obvious that compared to other players he is not forced to play short and can play long pushes alot since he is still able to be win with his crazy good blocking.

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