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    1. Top | #101
      mart1nandersson is offline
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      Isn't it a bit like cutting a cake? The birthday girl (CNT) gets the best piece, the best friend (provincial) gets the second best piece and the rest (commercial) gets the leftovers. Isn't it just a matter of quality and not really anything dramatically different other than what chemical solvent that the sponge is dipped in?

      I assume that Butterfly does the same. The premium quality goes to the pros (no matter how much how Timo tries to portray it as he just picks it up from the local BTY store in Düsseldorf based on weight) and the rest of us gets the leftovers.

    2. Top | #102
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by mart1nandersson View Post
      Isn't it a bit like cutting a cake? The birthday girl (CNT) gets the best piece, the best friend (provincial) gets the second best piece and the rest (commercial) gets the leftovers. Isn't it just a matter of quality and not really anything dramatically different other than what chemical solvent that the sponge is dipped in?

      I assume that Butterfly does the same. The premium quality goes to the pros (no matter how much how Timo tries to portray it as he just picks it up from the local BTY store in Düsseldorf based on weight) and the rest of us gets the leftovers.
      Yes, the best pieces are kept for the VIPs for sure.

      But in the likes of DHS, it is an open secret on how they customise rubbers for the players.

      ie, for the rest of us, we by hardness based on the 40 or 41 etc
      for the CNT members they go one extra decimal to 40.5, 41, 41.5 hardness etc
      the topsheet's tack is also different per players request.

      so this isn't just a better piece of cake, this is a total different cake
      BYE BYE

    3. Top | #103
      mart1nandersson is offline
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      But isn't TT sponge cut out of a giant bales? I.e. the CNT part is still just the best part which then is graded into different hardness?

    4. Top | #104
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis View Post
      That didn't really answer my question.

      the Referee uses the LARC list of rubbers and will match
      how in the world would an referee even know no "tweeks are done"
      at the tournament, there is a racket control room, there is no equipment in there to check the rubber matches the specification registered.

      I only know a few referees, they are likely the worse equipment knowledge people I know in the sport.
      They are great with Law of TT, not great as a player, and maybe won't even know how to glue a bat.
      And i'm sure your best equipment knowledge referee can't just use a naked eye to decided the rubber is not what it supposed to be.

      Its common knowledge that DHS makes customized H3 for CNT members
      either have different sponges, the hardness, the tack on the topsheet is all customized per player
      so there you have one LARC number, but maybe 10 varieties.
      From my limited knowledge of LARC, I don't think they even police it....otherwise you will need 10 versions of H3
      Yes, you are right.
      What I stated is that it is in ITTF authority to make proper checking /though limited on competitions/ but they don't do it proper even when they are able and what they are able to do.
      About the regress of quality - It is in the ITTF authority to take for inspection market available rubbers and compare them with what they have tested and authorized in LARC. But here is the question is the brand sending to LARC just the market intended samples. If so, its almost impossible to sanction the differences of the personal rubbers. So we have to agree that top players are using rubbers we cuold never get in touch with.
      And I asume that its the same with BTY, not DHS only.
      I've mentioned before that since 2012 there is a Dignics rubber in LARC, just Dignics with no particular number like 05,80,64. And its still in LARC, BTY pays money to keep it registered and its sure that its for a reason. As this Dignics is not market available and I suppose it will never be, players may use it in competition whatever it is. And would ITTF do everything in its authority to sanction the differences - I don't think so.
      TT is a business for a lot of money, and we are on the side to be milked.

    5. Top | #105
      StehTischtennis is online now
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      Timo is playing with an unannounced Butterfly Tenergy 09c at the German National Championships last weekend.

      Click image for larger version. 

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      Better version: https://imgur.com/FuIZ8pb

      Last edited by StehTischtennis; 03-05-2019 at 03:15 PM.

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    7. Top | #106
      Zaid323918 is offline
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      We'll probably get to try it out in a few years time.

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    9. Top | #107
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      Quote Originally Posted by mart1nandersson View Post
      But isn't TT sponge cut out of a giant bales? I.e. the CNT part is still just the best part which then is graded into different hardness?
      The true national version H3 is diffrent from comercial H3 the nat version has diffrent pips under the topsheets ,there re pics of the topsheets

      If dignics have been used since 2012 why there re no pics of any player playing with dignics
      Last edited by bbkon; 03-07-2019 at 03:30 AM.

    10. Top | #108
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by mart1nandersson View Post
      But isn't TT sponge cut out of a giant bales? I.e. the CNT part is still just the best part which then is graded into different hardness?

      yes it is a very big piece
      but they are not making these for commericial

      Players normally get 50 sheets at a time (very small compared to the commericial product batch), but these are very high quality 50 sheets.

      they will custom make the sponge, custom make the topsheet per players specification
      then glue the 2 together and do test on each sheet
      and once passed, the sheet will be sent to CNT

      the not "passed" one will be use for your "commercial" national H3 blue sponge - the ones that some TT stores will sell.
      that is why supply is very inconsistent, as you are purchasing from "left overs" than oppose to DHS doing mass production on these special rubbers.
      so the CNT part is special x special if that makes sense.

      btw, the hardness is mixed purposely, not just made then graded
      so if they want a 41.5 batch - they will mix the formula to 41.5
      and then they will remove say the 41 and 42, and process the 41.5 for CNT
      But other than hardness, they also have a lot of other tests

      overall, the customs rubber is indeed niche

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    12. Top | #109
      langel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis View Post


      the not "passed" one will be use for your "commercial" national H3 blue sponge - the ones that some TT stores will sell.
      that is why supply is very inconsistent, as you are purchasing from "left overs" than oppose to DHS doing mass production on these special rubbers.
      so the CNT part is special x special if that makes sense.
      I beleive that such personal rubbers go to TT stores like prott. I've shared my opinion about that in some threads about prott.
      They have some remarks about such rubbers, which blink that QC was not passed.

    13. Top | #110
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by langel View Post
      I beleive that such personal rubbers go to TT stores like prott. I've shared my opinion about that in some threads about prott.
      They have some remarks about such rubbers, which blink that QC was not passed.
      I'm not refering to the "personal rubbers" that get sold
      I'm referring to the normal commericial H3 #21 bluesponge for example that can be purchase off DHS dealers like TT11 or what DHS sells at they own store.

      i'm not sure where Prott (hong kong based) gets they personalise rubbers from, but there are many ways and means.
      the moment one is connected, one can get it

      I'm not sure when DHS puts the personal name on - I would imagine it is after the qc pass
      if not meeting specification (not refering to failing, but not meeting the spec of the players requirement), then they will just leave it for commericial - no printing of players name on
      Last edited by Tony's Table Tennis; 03-07-2019 at 07:36 AM.

    14. Top | #111
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      Quote Originally Posted by StehTischtennis View Post
      Timo is playing with an unannounced Butterfly Tenergy 09c at the German National Championships last weekend.

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      Better version: https://imgur.com/FuIZ8pb

      Thank you for the photos. Though not an EJ, I find this dimension of the rubber world, right now, quite fascinating.

      It was announced that Timo is using Tenergy 05 Hard on his forehand. And, that he has been using it for quite some time. Suddenly, it's Tenergy 09c. So, what do we know about this rubber. One thing we know is that Timo trained with this rubber extensively prior to this major competition, as any seasoned pro would do. Two, we know he prefers it to the alternatives available to him. These alternatives include the aforementioned Tenergy 05 Hard. Another unemployed option is Dignics 05. Included in this list is also Tenergy 05 Regular.

      Although there is not yet convincing supportive evidence of this view yet, my contacts in Europe surmise it is a variation which includes a Tenergy topsheet. What is most intriguing here is that it is a declared Tenergy rubber, not Dignics. If the course of events unfolds as is expected, this reinforces the notion of an ongoing, top-of-the-line Butterfly parallelism between Tenergy and Dignics. This means that the intent of Butterfly is not to attempt to make Dignics their flagship rubber sheet line but to promote this duality at the high end. If this to be true, it will be the first time in Butterfly history to do so.

      A fun circus to watch. Thanks.

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    16. Top | #112
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by DonnOlsen View Post

      A fun circus to watch. Thanks.
      Hahaha
      Yeah,
      I don't really understand why a company must have 30 different rubbers, 40 different blades
      multiply that by 20 companies, then you have thousands and thousands of variations.

      I am by no means your average joe in terms of equipment expertise, production knowledge, coaching etc
      And heck, I get very confused some times....

      This is not a fun circus, its a headache circus

    17. Top | #113
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis View Post
      Hahaha
      Yeah,
      I don't really understand why a company must have 30 different rubbers, 40 different blades
      multiply that by 20 companies, then you have thousands and thousands of variations.

      I am by no means your average joe in terms of equipment expertise, production knowledge, coaching etc
      And heck, I get very confused some times....

      This is not a fun circus, its a headache circus
      True, but Tenergy and Dignics are at the top of the circus. Even if we mere mortals don't need / use it, it's interesting to see developments that will likely impact a majority of the pros!

    18. Top | #114
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      So is the price!!! £75.00

    19. Top | #115
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis View Post
      I don't really understand why a company must have 30 different rubbers, 40 different blades
      multiply that by 20 companies, then you have thousands and thousands of variations.
      And if one company introduces a new concept - say thicker sponge due to thinner topsheet - all the others must have it too. By the way, I see why these UltraMax rubbers make sense, but why apply the same thin topsheet to a 2.0 mm sponge?

      And also, why do we need a 50 degree sponge ultrafast rubber with 1,7 mm sponge?

      But it´s sometimes fun to watch (or read) how people find radical differences between rubbers that are virtually identical, how old rubbers that were never available in one country suddenly become the hottest shit when they finally are, and much more.

      If you don´t let it do your head in, it is a fun game

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