Chubby pros

Atas Newton said:

I mean, yeah, that's what this thread is about. We're only disagreeing in if the particular player have excess adipose tissue or not. Let's take Chen Meng cause she's the leanest of the suspects. Even though our dreams of her removing her shirt (ba dum t-s-s, bad joke) aren't coming true, the shirt sometimes wants to remove itself during an intense rally, you know. I feel weird pointing that out but you ask and you shall receive.

Sorry mate, that ain't muscles. And it's not just face: arms, thighs, pretty much any part of your body is a giveaway of your body fat %. Muscle definition is a giveaway too. Chen Meng is very strong and has a lot of muscle mass but the girl also has ~10 kilos of excess fat, easily. NextLevel is right, we can't be certain it's 10kg. It might be 8, it might be 13, who cares? It is plain to see the extra weight is there and it's substantial. Liang Jingkun had lost 10kg before the WTTC last year (has since regained it all) as reported by the Chinese netizens that visit our forums, and he was still far from slim. There's a lot of top level members and ex-members of CNT who rank top10 in the world with quite a few extra cm on their waist and I'm asking what you're asking: how?

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And how do you know she has 8 - 13 kg of excess fat? Not excess weight but excess fat?

A popular fitness trainer told the story of an American football player who was clearly overweight. His coaches asked him to lose weight because he was too big. He was put on diets and his food relatively limited. This was back in the 70s/80s. Then they test his body fat %. It came out at 2%.

Yeah. People working out and taunting a guy to lose fat whose body fat percentage is less than many top athletes in other sports. They then let him gain weight and his play improved.

That is the story I remember when I hear all these genius proclamations that someone is carrying extra body fat. Extra weight is possible and is very different from extra body fat. I have never felt Liang Jingkun was particularly fat but I have felt he was overweight. Same with FZD and he lost weight too. For me there is a difference - fat is not necessarily what makes people overweight.

You can argue all you want that Chen Meng is overweight but I don't see it but I can get it. But if you argue that she is fat, you need more than an eye test. Because you don't know what her body fat % is and as a woman, she needs to carry some for hormonal balance. People also have different body types. Don't confuse hers with others.

Atas Newton said:

there's this saying which goes: "you can tell it because of the way it is"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXU3o8YW3K8 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
p.s.: I'm sorry Chen Meng, I didn't wanna do this.

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https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090302115755.htm

I have provided lots of stuff to enable you to understand that
1) healthy women carry more body fat than healthy men.
2) Chen Meng obviously has a slim upper body and most of her weight is in her lower body like most top level table tennis players.
3) you cannot tell someone is overweight just by looking at what you think is excess fat. You need to measure their body fat percentage with real measuring instruments.
4) Extra weight is different from over weight due to fat. You can carry extra weight due to muscle. Some people raise their weight and BMI. If we assume that BMI is reasonable even with its limitations, someone can be muscular and carry extra weight. Think of a body builder who is very muscular but who has gained pounds. They could be slim and muscular or larger and muscular. Larger and muscular is extra weight.

My point is that you cannot tell that Chen Meng has extra weight because she is fat. You might argue that she is heavier than she should be, which is what I said about Lianf Jingkun. But I never said LJK was heavy because he was fat. I just felt that his size didn't help his speed and endurance. The body and heart do not work as hard when carrying less weight in general.

I rest my case. At this point, it is almost as if I am dealing with someone who watches TV rather hanging around real women. Or maybe living in America has biased me.

This is table tennis not Olympic weightlifting.

NextLevel said:

A popular fitness trainer told the story of an American football player who was clearly overweight. His coaches asked him to lose weight because he was too big. He was put on diets and his food relatively limited. This was back in the 70s/80s. Then they test his body fat %. It came out at 2%.

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What a bullsh*t. Bodybuilders on competition day are like 5% bodyfat or so. No football player was and ever will be 2% body fat. I don't know what is the reason for making up those stories and what is the reason to share them further.

I have not read through this thread so i migth be wrong. Is this not a pretty strange discussion where We on a tabletennis forum focus on how the players look and their weigth and not on how their technique are and how they play? Maybe it is an interesting discussion But i feel that is is not really our business how much these players weigth, or Maybe it is But i Do not know if this is the correct forum for it. But of course everyone should be allowed to discuss What they want and have an opinion and this is just my opinion.

tutas_piotr said:

What a bullsh*t. Bodybuilders on competition day are like 5% bodyfat or so. No football player was and ever will be 2% body fat. I don't know what is the reason for making up those stories and what is the reason to share them further.

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I knew someone would say this. The story is from Covert Bailey's book, "Fit or Fat", which was written in the 80s before more modern tests with lower error were widespread. It is unlikely that the guy was 2%. It is however quite likely that the guy was being told to lose fat when he had very little to lose because he looked fat. That is my main point.

Or are you one of those people too who who thinks you can tell how fat an athlete is by looking at them?

I think it is possible for a football player to have 2% body fat, say a running back or a wide receiver. I don't that is healthy though.

NextLevel said:

I knew someone would say this. The story is from Covert Bailey's book, "Fit or Fat", which was written in the 80s before more modern tests with lower error were widespread. It is unlikely that the guy was 2%. It is however quite likely that the guy was being told to lose fat when he had very little to lose because he looked fat. That is my main point.

Or are you one of those people too who who thinks you can tell how fat an athlete is by looking at them?

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There is no way to be very ripped and considered fat. literally no way. my point stands. Also something being before modern test doesn't make it legit magically. it's still bullshit.

The only thing is big ripped guy with baggy clothes. but that's stretching the argument.

The second point. Find any my post where I called any % body fat on any player. However you can most of the times see who is chubby or who is not. Or using your way of discussion.. or are you one of those people who thinks that there is no way to distinguish muscle mass from fat?

tutas_piotr said:

There is no way to be very ripped and considered fat. literally no way. my point stands. Also something being before modern test doesn't make it legit magically. it's still bullshit.

The only thing is big ripped guy with baggy clothes. but that's stretching the argument.

The second point. Find any my post where I called any % body fat on any player. However you can most of the times see who is chubby or who is not. Or using your way of discussion.. or are you one of those people who thinks that there is no way to distinguish muscle mass from fat?

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There is. It is called a dexascan. If you haven't done it, do not pretend to know exactly how fat a world class athlete is.

Atas Newton said:

yes, your point being?

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The players do not have to keep a low % of BF to stay within weight classes. Table tennis is not a sport where a low % of BF is necessary for top performance. That said these women are not "chubby". There are female WTA tennis pros that look just like them, a sport which requires even more cardiovascular and anaerobic abilities.

Loopadoop said:

I think it is possible for a football player to have 2% body fat, say a running back or a wide receiver. I don't that is healthy though.

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Impossible. Mr. Olympia winners might get near that, for literally a few hours on competition day. The most ripped wide receiver is likely to be 7-8% BF. 2% would be death material.

NextLevel said:

There is. It is called a dexascan. If you haven't done it, do not pretend to know exactly how fat a world class athlete is.

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What the hell are you talking about here? re-read my comment. WHERE did i say i know exactly how far is someone? All I did is called you out on your bullshit argument from your 80's book which was riduculoues. And after that I said that in general people can tell if someone is fat or not. Nothing more.

SHOW ME WHEN I SAID I'M ABLE TO JUDGE BODY FAT PERCENTAGE JUST BY LOOKING AT SOMEONE or drop your argument.

tutas_piotr said:

What the hell are you talking about here? re-read my comment. WHERE did i say i know exactly how far is someone? All I did is called you out on your bullshit argument from your 80's book which was riduculoues. And after that I said that in general people can tell if someone is fat or not. Nothing more.

SHOW ME WHEN I SAID I'M ABLE TO JUDGE BODY FAT PERCENTAGE JUST BY LOOKING AT SOMEONE or drop your argument.

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You seem to be coming late into a discussion without understanding the context. My original story was an example of someone being treated like he was fat and being forced to lose weight when he was not fat - he performed better athletically when allowed to lose weight. Yes the 2% number is wrong but the story is relevant

It is not a bad thing or understand why someone wrote something. If you agree that people can make bad judgments about how fat someone is, then you understand me. If not, fine. Please read what Atas has written and comment. If you don't read his posts then you can't make sense of mine.

NextLevel said:

You seem to be coming late into a discussion without understanding the context. My original story was an example of someone being treated like he was fat and being forced to lose weight when he was not fat - he performed better athletically when allowed to lose weight. Yes the 2% number is wrong but the story is relevant

It is not a bad thing or understand why someone wrote something. If you agree that people can make bad judgments about how fat someone is, then you understand me. If not, fine. Please read what Atas has written and comment. If you don't read his posts then you can't make sense of mine.

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I wasn't contributing to the whole discussion. I was commenting specific part of your post which is pretty clear because I quote exact part of your post which I had a problem with.

My problem with your story is not only 2% of bodyfat however. He could be even 8%. There is no way to see someone who is so lean (8% is very lean for a non-physique competitor) and see him as fat. No way. Especially by professional trainers. 2% thing is just the icing on the cake.

That and only that is my point in this discussion - bullshit story that's just not adds up to whatever you were trying to prove by it.

To not sound like an asshole - I get that you were trying to say that some things can me misinterpreted a little. Someone might be sent on a diet without the need. there are different body types. someone might have some fat on belly but very lean arms etc. That happens. For example Vasilly Polovnikov (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahYjzfNBY6w) is quite lean but some people think he is not that lean as he has very weird build. However no professional trainer would call him fat. NONE. non-educated people (in terms of sports) might misjudge it but that's about it.