Is double inverted the most viable setup to play?

That's what I going to mention in amatuer level.
Different from Pros, SP or LP at amatuer level is another story.

It's more like a double-edged sword.
For the positive side, everybody knows the deceptive effect. And amatuer players dont't have systematic training against pimple players. Pimples are more effective in at amatuer level.

But there is one thing limites the SP in amatuer games -- The very little room for controlling. The one eduardo1995filipe in this post, I guest he must pratice quite a few times everyweek, to maintain the feeling to hit the ball on the table that easily.

As I said before, SP has very little room for controlling. You have to be very precise at timing, angle, power etc to hit the ball on the table 'easily'. It is not that easy as look. And such precision can only by maintained by daily training. Because this skill is quite dependant on your feeling. And the feeling can be maintained by frequent training.

This was told by one of my Chinese coaches. He used to be a provincial team player, traditional Chinese short pips penholders like Liu Guoliang. He told me "Short pips are so hard to maintain the hitting skill. When I was in the provincial team, if I was lazy and stop training for a week not playing table tennis at all. My feeling will be just like sh*t and will miss most of the shot. Will have to train half a day to get the feeling back. That's why, after I quit from the provincial team , I changed my FH from short pips to inverted. Inverted is so easy to control, I can stop playing for a month then straight into game using inverted -- just don't do to many power shot, but more brush and control spin instead. But if I keep using short pips, I will be like amatuer if I stop playing for two weeks."

Not many amatuers can do routine training (at least 3-4 times per week). SP and LP will be difficult to master if not practice freequently.

But in China, there are some 50s and 60s who use SP and LP, they play on the public court nearly everyday for the past 5-10 years. They developed such skills that they just slap and kill most of the points with very little mistakes. Sometimes they can win semi-pro players or even some lower level city or provincial team players.






True. For example. In one of the leagues that I play, the player that usually wins all the tournaments is a BH LP pips hitter. He knows really how to use pips, he doesn't have awkward BH stroke(nothing like Zhang Guo Zhi), he just can easily hit with the pips so easily, and plus he has a good FH, and good transition between FH and BH, so he can do some good pace variation. There are other short pips players there, but no one can use 100% of pips potential like him there.
 
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I agree. Mostly because you need to hit at the highest point and Do not get any spin. It is alot of timing. I think this is very obvious for those that have ever Tried short pips. I think it also is depends how hard the pimples are.

I have a story about Falck. A friend of mine that trained with him Said he was the worse player in the training hall after vacation because he missed everything. So your systemet seems to be very true.

Long pimple is not as effective anymore, not in any level. You can still win and play good But harder with long pimples with friction and with the bigger ball. I think they need to be alot more offensive to beat good players.
 
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Maybe they still Do and they have adapted well. It is still more difficult for them today.

Have you played any long pimple players, especially blockers with the new ball and the old ball? I think and they think it is big difference.

But Maybe they have come up with better rubbers to counter this. But still this style of play was at its peak when they could use long pimples without friction and with the old ball. It is a big difference. It is for a reason åkerström came at second place at junior world championship and beat ovtcharov But then when they ban that kind of rubbers he had a much harder time. But he won swedish championship after that so it is also totally true What you say that you can play successfull with it.
 
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I disagree. How has it helped them?

And there are No longer long pimples without friction. They banned those. Im pretty sure of that, But correct me if Im wrong.
 
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I disagree. How has it helped them?

And there are No longer long pimples without friction. They banned those. Im pretty sure of that, But correct me if Im wrong.

If you know the kind of stuff Loopadoop posts and how he feels about long pips, you will realize your best strategy is to nod your head and move on...
 
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I disagree. How has it helped them?

And there are No longer long pimples without friction. They banned those. Im pretty sure of that, But correct me if Im wrong.

I think he means the low friction pips, legal ones still made for at the table blocking -- pushblockers
 
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I disagree. How has it helped them?

And there are No longer long pimples without friction. They banned those. Im pretty sure of that, But correct me if Im wrong.

Seo Hyo Won just won the recent women's tournament, in whatever venue it was. So long pip choppers can still win at very high levels (on the women's side!). Even so, on the men's side I haven't checked the ratings recently, but I'd think top 50 still has a number of choppers.

Can't really see how the new ball has helped choppers... short pip or long pip! At lower levels, that might be true since the lower speed/spin of the ball is easier to return. But then there is less spin for attackers to make mistakes on.
 
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I disagree. How has it helped them?

And there are No longer long pimples without friction. They banned those. Im pretty sure of that, But correct me if Im wrong.

The plastic ball deceleration change has benifited the long pips usage at the table. Some long pips users treat their pips to be frictionless.
 
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At amateur level, any setup is viable.

I think what most people forget, is simply that because inverted is the most popular setup, there are tons of resources to learn the correct technique with it, and many players or coaches can teach you. However a lot of the pips players at amateur levels are self-learners and have very "personal" technique with flaws and/or difficult to teach.

As a result, in practice, IMHO, you probably need 2 or 3x more time to learn how to play with pips correctly.
 
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The plastic ball deceleration change has benifited the long pips usage at the table. Some long pips users treat their pips to be frictionless.

Okay. I still think it is worse for them since becausee of the less spin the opponent can loop much harder. I thought that was illegal? But people boost so.
 
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At amateur level, any setup is viable.

I think what most people forget, is simply that because inverted is the most popular setup, there are tons of resources to learn the correct technique with it, and many players or coaches can teach you. However a lot of the pips players at amateur levels are self-learners and have very "personal" technique with flaws and/or difficult to teach.

As a result, in practice, IMHO, you probably need 2 or 3x more time to learn how to play with pips correctly.

I have coached some seniors to use the long pips. The learning time for long pips is much less than inverted rubber.
 
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I agree it is difficult to learn strokes without a coach even more if you use pimples.
But i think that if you have coaching for some years and Do not know how pimples work or how to Do the basic strokes with them you are not a good coach or coaching at a very low Level.

But I Do think coaches often know more about inverted and how to Do strokes with them so they Do not want to put pimples on their players. So for starting to use pimple and to become successfull with it you proably need a coach that is pretty confident in their kmowledge about Pimples. And Maybe there are not many of them out there.
 
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