How to return a fast short pendulum serve to the wide bh

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Just so you know Tony, based on video footage, several times, in several different threads, Dominus has been told that his equipment is way too fast for him. That he should be using something slower. That he should use an All or All+ blade at fastest and simple control rubbers. Consistently, after threads where he was looking for help with equipment he seems to have ignored all advice and systematically and progressively used faster and faster equipment.

:)

There is not much you can do when someone thinks they know what they need and ignore the video footage of them not being able to get more than 3 shots in a row on the table. :)

hahaha, and I swear I didn't see the video
 
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I'm agreed about time ago my setup were faster than my skills: MX-P/R7/H8/H3N/T05/T05FX/GA8/ LKT pro XP/ 729 Cross lll DWSC/Primorac/Korbel J/ Korbel E/ Viscaria/Yinhe v16/Yinhe E3
Those were my setup and combinations, but most go away for selling/trading/broking.

And is a fact that I can't win against my teammates with a slow setup proved many times, I don't surprise them and it's annoying, so maybe a way to grow the development could be, train with a slow setup but compete with a faster one. From 15 players I was 14th with slow setup but with a fast setup 8th going to 7th.

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What this tells me is that you didn't improve from 14 to 7th, but rather the equipment did.
When I coach junior national team players, I make them think one important question - did you win the point, or did the opponent give you the point.
Without an honest answer, you can't understand how you are winning and loosing, then there is no ways for you to improve.

For me, if you want to improve in the long run, the short term gain/losses are not important.
If you are not able to push the ball or drop the ball short with an incoming underspin short ball, this shows a fundamental basic issue that you need to work on.
The 4 main shots in table tennis from any text book is FH top spin, BH top spin, FH push and BH push. So this is 1 of 4 basics you can't do.
I would say - if you do have stock of all these equipment is to put up R7 on an all wood blade and see if it is possible to get in.

R7 is a very fast rubber already, so you can't say its too slow even on an allwood. I played most of my career with Yasaka Extra. So did players like Wang Hao.
The faster equipment will help if you are away from the table, but your problem is the first 3 balls/5 balls, then why get equipment that focus on 7/9/11 balls, but your ratio of getting to 7/9/11 balls is so low?
 
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says Spin and more spin.
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So, the speed of the setup you are using is good for a very high level player: Elite amateur close to pro level.

If you are asking about returning a simple serve, I would highly doubt you are that even if I had not seen footage of you plying.

It is very common for low level players to think they need faster equipment and to not understand how they are hindering their development of good technique.

If your technique improves, you can hit the ball WITH LOTS OF POWER in TT with Allround Classic and Mark V. With poor mechanics, you end up thinking it is the fault of the racket that your shots are slow.

I have seen many good players use very slow setups and, because their technique is good, their shots are very fast and very spinny. It’s all in the technique.

I have a friend who is a tennis pro who is about 2200 (USATT). If he could read spin and really knew TT over the table skills he might be much higher level.

He uses Stiga Allround Classic with Mark V. Slow, slow, slow setup. And yet his loops are faster than many high rated players with Viscaria and Tenergy. The reason: the timing of the body, the precision and timing of the contact. If TT was just about speed of loops, he would be top 50 in the world. With a slow blade and slow rubbers.

But I would like to see footage of you playing matches with your setup. Seeing how you play short game and rallies would be interesting. I would love to see the improvements you have made over the last few months.
 
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says Spin and more spin.
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Also, in match play, you have to get past the first 3 balls for a faster setup to help you in rallies. And the last time I saw footage of match play from you, in several matches, I don’t believe there was one rally that got past the first 3 balls and 95% of the rallies were lost on mistakes. None were won by attacking skills. So I am skeptical that faster setups has lead to any short term gains.

So, hopefully we get to see how much that has improved.
 
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The main problem of the OP and the reason for this thread is that can not deal with Side spin serves comming to his BH. Ke doesn't have the technique and experience to do this and the faster more spin sensitive setup doesn't help him. A slower setup and adequate training will do.
 
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I don't need faster setup, I've got the lesson, so I repeat, I'm playing with the v16 because the Korbel broke, and don't have more blades, and I'm fixing it, but I'm not a craftsman, so it's difficult too, I think the next week will be ready to play with it, r7 is a fast and very grippy rubber when new, but the Lifetime is too short, I bought 2 sheets and they were not good both rubbers, btw I just train twice a week by 2 hs each so is not enough time at least for me to training, so I won't become in a professional player, but I want to have a good foundation, because i want to enter in several leagues, in order to use what I've been learned and of course have fun, so if you say a slower setup, what do you think about a Yinhe e3, stiga offensive classic clone, with Yinhe Jupiter 2 on both sides?

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We have these kind of threads on the forum like EVERY WEEK. Experienced players reply every week, and the syndrome seems to spread worse than a Sexually Transmitted Disease or Government Propaganda.

It is almost like an enemy of Table Tennis development flew a helicopter all over the world and sprayed confusion dust into the breathing air.

So many experienced players have replied with sound advice week after week after week after week... so much that many experienced players absolutely will not come on the TT forums and share their good knowledge and motivation. I know so many in this situation, both members and perspective members. In fact, all this EJ and fan-boy talk about equipment dominating 75% of all TT discussions is a big turn-off and is in my opinion the number one reason why good and elite amateur players do not participate in TT forums. Pros... another matter - the same fanboy crowd tries to TELL THEM how to play TT... so for obvious reasons, you see damn few pros on TT forums... and when you do, their stay is VERY SHORT.

Many coaches will disagree upon EXACTLY what is slow equipment and the right blade/rubber/sponge thickness… and with time this will change too. Sriver and Mark V used to be the top end offensive rubbers and some OFF- to OFF blades used to called missile launchers.

What is tried and true is to use equipment (combination of blade/rubber, but mostly rubber here) that allows you to feel the ball, NOT have crazy rebound, is EASIER to generate spin, and EASY to control the height, depth, and placement of your shots.

Usually, this means a blade with feel, some flex, feedback, and controllable speed. Usually, this is a 5 or 7 ply blade in the ALL to OFF- range. Not always, but mostly. This allows a player a great chance to feel the ball and develop strokes with effective coaching.

Usually, this means a middle of the road modern Offensive Control rubber. Often it means use a soft to medium soft sponge, but not always. (Some players have a better impact early and can use harder sponged rubbers) Usually, it is a control rubber in the class of Vega Europe - a rubber that is not ridiculous in speed, has a good topsheet that is supple, a pip structure that allows the topsheet to easily wrap the ball, a sponge that is dynamic enough to give an OK top end, and a sponge that is not high catapult.

I could pimp up Nexy Karis M (the least hard version), that rubber is absolute tops when it comes to handling incoming spin... and it is absolute linear totally void of any catapult (that is why many players hate on it... they all want a catapult missile launcher)… but you do not see me promoting that rubber much.

Exactly which rubber one decides to use is not nearly as important as SELECTING AN APPROPRIATE middle of the road control rubber and blade.


This last sentence is pretty much spoken loud and clear EVERY DAMNED WEEK, if not every day... YET, the confusion dust spread by the enemies of TT is worse and worse.

I blame several things for this

- TT Companies... they make money every time this dust is sprayed... KA-CHING !!! I say that freely and truthfully... and I am an equipment re-seller.

- TT Forums... forums make it SO DAMN EASY to share the EJ virus and incubate it with threads fretting over this and that.

- TT Players... Ultimately, it is the player's crazy desires to find that ULTIMATE WEAPON that so totally over-ride logic and sound advice.

There are HUNDREDS of rubbers in this class. Every maker makes several of this class. I believe Sriver and Mark V are on the very low end of this class (in terms of dynamic sponge and topsheet) (but not in ease of control - these are still up there). I lot of coaches will want to cane me for saying and believing that.
 
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I'm agreed about time ago my setup were faster than my skills: MX-P/R7/H8/H3N/T05/T05FX/GA8/ LKT pro XP/ 729 Cross lll DWSC/Primorac/Korbel J/ Korbel E/ Viscaria/Yinhe v16/Yinhe E3
Those were my setup and combinations, but most go away for selling/trading/broking.

And is a fact that I can't win against my teammates with a slow setup proved many times, I don't surprise them and it's annoying, so maybe a way to grow the development could be, train with a slow setup but compete with a faster one. From 15 players I was 14th with slow setup but with a fast setup 8th going to 7th.

Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk

EVERY TIME I play with a slower setup for 3-4 months, then use a faster setup, I seem to have developed aspects of my game that were not developing as fast... then when I go back to what I was using (or a similar class) I play a higher level (due to development with slower equipment)

Lately, a ttd member has pushed me to optimize equipment for my developed strokes and style of play. It has really helped me improve my level.

This TTD member is "erm" you hear me refer to him frequently... he is one of the higher level amateur players who have lost any motivation to discuss appropriate equipment of technique/tactics... all because of the new players/low level fanboy players who never listen to advice and know it all. "erm" probably the ultimate EJ ever, but is at a level where he can know ALL the differences of equipment and adjust his play. He used to be on his national team in TT and Tennis... and was an ex-pro in Tennis. Just about any player or coach of consequence in California knows this man.

I did stuff my way for a few years with controllable equipment (KJH and Karis) and such a class of equipment really helped me out in stroke development... so I could move on to dynamic equipment.

I say that to hope you would consider using the slower stuff and get effective coaching for a few more years. Then, you would be much better setup to use more dynamic equipment.
 
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We have these kind of threads on the forum like EVERY WEEK. Experienced players reply every week, and the syndrome seems to spread worse than a Sexually Transmitted Disease or Government Propaganda.

It is almost like an enemy of Table Tennis development flew a helicopter all over the world and sprayed confusion dust into the breathing air.

So many experienced players have replied with sound advice week after week after week after week... so much that many experienced players absolutely will not come on the TT forums and share their good knowledge and motivation. I know so many in this situation, both members and perspective members. In fact, all this EJ and fan-boy talk about equipment dominating 75% of all TT discussions is a big turn-off and is in my opinion the number one reason why good and elite amateur players do not participate in TT forums. Pros... another matter - the same fanboy crowd tries to TELL THEM how to play TT... so for obvious reasons, you see damn few pros on TT forums... and when you do, their stay is VERY SHORT.

Many coaches will disagree upon EXACTLY what is slow equipment and the right blade/rubber/sponge thickness… and with time this will change too. Sriver and Mark V used to be the top end offensive rubbers and some OFF- to OFF blades used to called missile launchers.

What is tried and true is to use equipment (combination of blade/rubber, but mostly rubber here) that allows you to feel the ball, NOT have crazy rebound, is EASIER to generate spin, and EASY to control the height, depth, and placement of your shots.

Usually, this means a blade with feel, some flex, feedback, and controllable speed. Usually, this is a 5 or 7 ply blade in the ALL to OFF- range. Not always, but mostly. This allows a player a great chance to feel the ball and develop strokes with effective coaching.

Usually, this means a middle of the road modern Offensive Control rubber. Often it means use a soft to medium soft sponge, but not always. (Some players have a better impact early and can use harder sponged rubbers) Usually, it is a control rubber in the class of Vega Europe - a rubber that is not ridiculous in speed, has a good topsheet that is supple, a pip structure that allows the topsheet to easily wrap the ball, a sponge that is dynamic enough to give an OK top end, and a sponge that is not high catapult.

I could pimp up Nexy Karis M (the least hard version), that rubber is absolute tops when it comes to handling incoming spin... and it is absolute linear totally void of any catapult (that is why many players hate on it... they all want a catapult missile launcher)… but you do not see me promoting that rubber much.

Exactly which rubber one decides to use is not nearly as important as SELECTING AN APPROPRIATE middle of the road control rubber and blade.


This last sentence is pretty much spoken loud and clear EVERY DAMNED WEEK, if not every day... YET, the confusion dust spread by the enemies of TT is worse and worse.

I blame several things for this

- TT Companies... they make money every time this dust is sprayed... KA-CHING !!! I say that freely and truthfully... and I am an equipment re-seller.

- TT Forums... forums make it SO DAMN EASY to share the EJ virus and incubate it with threads fretting over this and that.

- TT Players... Ultimately, it is the player's crazy desires to find that ULTIMATE WEAPON that so totally over-ride logic and sound advice.

There are HUNDREDS of rubbers in this class. Every maker makes several of this class. I believe Sriver and Mark V are on the very low end of this class (in terms of dynamic sponge and topsheet) (but not in ease of control - these are still up there). I lot of coaches will want to cane me for saying and believing that.
Hahahahahaha, you made me the day, german boy, the objective of this thread is learn from the more experienced, I need to improve a lot, so is that and no more

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Triple haha, I am from South Central L.A.

You might have heard about that place and that there are zero tough people over there.

On the needing to improve area, I am in the same boat too, even if I am further along the way then most developing players. I have not yet plateaued. I prolly have around ten more years before I am so much on the wrong side of 60 that it may be physically impossible to play the way I do.
 
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Triple haha, I am from South Central L.A.

You might have heard about that place and that there are zero tough people over there.

On the needing to improve area, I am in the same boat too, even if I am further along the way then most developing players. I have not yet plateaued. I prolly have around ten more years before I am so much on the wrong side of 60 that it may be physically impossible to play the way I do.
You can play even till last day of your life , I've heard about riots '65 and '92 and read something a lot of time ago, I hope the place become better after that. As in every city always there are gang, dealers and that kind of trash, at least you don't have witches and daemons going around over there...

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Also, in match play, you have to get past the first 3 balls for a faster setup to help you in rallies. And the last time I saw footage of match play from you, in several matches, I don’t believe there was one rally that got past the first 3 balls and 95% of the rallies were lost on mistakes. None were won by attacking skills. So I am skeptical that faster setups has lead to any short term gains.

So, hopefully we get to see how much that has improved.

I really hope that comments in this direction do not discourage the OP from posting any additional footage. It is already quite a threshold to post a video in the first place, and then the pressure when it is taken apart, have to show wast improvement later on etc. Sometimes they are almost demanded as a proof of skill in a heated debate. It is not like the forums overflow with personal videos anyway.

So dominus7, if you still want to post a video, then it would be great! Possibly taken at an angle from your bh side, then it would be easier to see the serves.

A lot of good advice has already been given, the one I really like is about not hesitating, no matter what serve you are getting. Go for the shot you have decided for and do not change your mind in the middle of it. If it is a short serve, make sure you step in to get close to the ball, use a small stroke and step out again. Do not underestimate the footwork, even the smallest steps matter! Also try the best you can to watch the contact point, to at least have a slight chance to know if it is underspin, no-spin or topspin.

I think you can use faster equipment if you are really determined on improving your technique and keeping the same setup for a long time. Several years ago I went from Mark V 2.0 mm on a 5-ply wooden allround blade to a Viscaria with Tenergy max thickness on both sides. For me this was the biggest change ever, but I was determined to 1) really improving both my serves, short game and spin shots and 2) keeping the same setup for a long time. I believe it took me a good 6 - 12 months getting fully used to it. But then again, I do not mind loosing many games if that is the only way for improvement and to practice a certain shot.

Today I can really say that both my serves and spin shots have improved. Probably mostly because of the focus on technique, but if I go back to the old Mark V setup for just a couple of minutes, it feels so dead and the throw angle is just weird. Changing to a different blade with max tensors is usually ok.

However, I have to really say that the short game sometimes suffers and this one area I am working on. I think it is here you will really see the difference between the slower and faster setups: The amount of pop-ups when pushing short/serve receive and a bit unpredictable when you engage the tensor etc. At least for someone like me on the amateur level. I am pretty sure that you (or anyone) can improve much in this area even with a fast tensor setup, if you are determined and read the serve correctly.
 
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