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  1. Brs is offline
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    #21
    This forum is outstanding for threads about pro tournaments and national champs. Lots of good video links, and analysis, and zeio's translations. It's worth ignoring the 100 weekly ej threads to get to those.

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  2. vik2000 is offline
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    #22
    I think this EJ problem is prevalent in almost everything. Back when I used to be huge into automotive sport, there were always never-ending threads about different brands of modifications. The more experienced drivers would always suggest people to simply spend money on gaining experiences around the track vs. sinking thousands of dollars into modifications.

    I think EJing to some extent is fine at least in the beginning because it allows you to try various compositions of blades (wood, alc, zlc) and rubbers (Chinese or Euro/Jap, hard or soft). There is a problem though when you cannot settle for a set-up and continuously buying multiple blades every year. I do have to say that sticking to a safe set-up in the beginning and spending $ on coaches will improve level much faster than experimenting with different blades/rubbers.

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    Last edited by vik2000; 01-28-2019 at 01:25 AM.

  3. Lightzy is offline
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    #23
    Nevertheless it's not my business to lecture to a person who's asking for what to buy about psychological problems that I project onto him (EJ etc).

    Guy asks a question about equipment, you wanna help, answer his question helpfully.

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    #24
    This type of thread is the easiest to get activity, if the forum moderators were interested in that.

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  5. zeio is offline
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    zeio is offline
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Lula
    Nice to hear that you are playing again! I agree that you can play with china rubber unboosted, but i feel like it is easier if the sponge is not rockhard.

    I see two penholders in the video. I am curious, how common is it nowdays in asia that players are using penhold? alot of older players or also younger players?
    It's definitely easier to get more spin. Though I feel folks get a bit excessive on that aspect, because you'd still need sufficient swing speed to make good use of it.

    Very uncommon nowadays. The last wave of penholders are from the 80s to 90s. Many of them have converted to shakehand though, in large part due to Waldner. Roughly the year 2000 was the first time I saw practically all new kids start with shakehand. In the workshop open to school kids on the weekend, I haven't spotted one penholder the past several years.

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    Last edited by zeio; 01-28-2019 at 09:46 AM.
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  6. Lula is offline
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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by zeio
    It's definitely easier to get more spin. Though I feel folks get a bit excessive on that aspect, because you'd still need sufficient swing speed to make good use of it.

    Very uncommon nowadays. The last wave of penholders are from the 80s to 90s. Many of them have converted to shakehand though, in large part due to Waldner. Roughly the year 2000 was the first time I saw practically all new kids started with shakehand. In the workshop open to school kids on the weekend, I haven't spotted one penholder the past several years.
    That is too bad. I like the diversity and penholders are fun to watch. Were it the same coach that teached shakehand and penhold? Can imagine that it must be a little different, atleast the grip.

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  7. langel is offline
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    #27
    EJing is a must. Its nourishing the brand contracts with the top-players and the sponsoring and is helping R&D, so its good for the TT development.
    Another aspect - most of the amateurs, no matter what level and experience, don't have access to a club big enough to offer bat testing and adequate coaching. Its common and normal for the younger beginners to fix their eyes on top-players equipment first.
    Just to mention that there is no such thing as absolute competence, even the most competent should know there is someone more competente out there, and this is the basis of the forum society and the discussion. TT is a very precise sport, but its a huge system with great amount of variables, and noone may pretend to command all its laws. One may be very competent in something, but not so competent in many others. So Dunning-Kruger may work on all levels.

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    #28
    I can only speak for myself, but I've developed severe shoulder pain from playing with unboosted H3 (H3N BS 41) for a while, maybe the culprit being applying wrong technique, unclear but shouldn't be ruled out. The last few sessions, while still having shoulder troubles I'm using boosted H3 (H3N BS 41) and it's night and day, it's an entirely different rubber This is the partner I've been looking for.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeio
    It's definitely easier to get more spin. Though I feel folks get a bit excessive on that aspect, because you'd still need sufficient swing speed to make good use of it.

    Very uncommon nowadays. The last wave of penholders are from the 80s to 90s. Many of them have converted to shakehand though, in large part due to Waldner. Roughly the year 2000 was the first time I saw practically all new kids started with shakehand. In the workshop open to school kids on the weekend, I haven't spotted one penholder the past several years.

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  9. bricec is offline
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    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by vik2000
    I think this EJ problem is prevalent in almost everything
    Being quite invested in board sports as well (snowboarding, skiing, kiteboarding, wakeboarding) I can attest that it's the very same in those as well :-)

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  10. langel is offline
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    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by bricec
    Being quite invested in board sports as well (snowboarding, skiing, kiteboarding, wakeboarding) I can attest that it's the very same in those as well :-)
    EJing is everywhere in the modern world. The modern civilization economy is based more and more on global market share and EJing. If you stop EJing the world will collapse.
    I'm a member of an audiophile society with different groups and if I tell you the money margins there, Jang JiKe's watch EJing will look like collecting bottle caps. I'm glad I'm through with it.
    Here we use to say Boys and Men differ only in their toys price margin.

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  11. zeio is offline
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    #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Lula
    That is too bad. I like the diversity and penholders are fun to watch. Were it the same coach that teached shakehand and penhold? Can imagine that it must be a little different, atleast the grip.
    It's painful. China and Hong Kong suffered what I call the "C-pen Purge" during the 90s. To give you an idea of the extent of impact, together with my friend, I remember getting turned down at the door just because the club manager wanted only shakehand players to join because they already had enough penholders. If this were in the West, that'd be a case of grip-type discrimination.

    Basically all coaches over 40s started out with penhold, and then picked up shakehand in an effort to change with the times. Though they didn't know how to teach the BH strokes.

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  12. Lula is offline
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    #32
    Quote Originally Posted by zeio
    It's painful. China and Hong Kong suffered what I call the "C-pen Purge" during the 90s. To give you an idea of the extent of impact, together with my friend, I remember getting turned down at the door just because the club manager wanted only shakehand players to join because they already had enough penholders. If this were in the West, that'd be a case of grip-type discrimination.

    Basically all coaches over 40s started out with penhold, and then picked up shakehand in an effort to change with the times. Though they didn't know how to teach the BH strokes.
    Pretty crazy that you were not welcome because of how you hold your racket. Were you an adult at this point? I can imagine it would be alot of noise and that people would be upset about this if they did this against a kid.

  13. laistrogian is offline
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    #33
    Personally, i’m glad i’m done with the EJ phase.

    I enjoy using my mizutani zlc the most and came to accept the cons of using a rocket ship as a blade.

    I cant keep on buying tenergies for FH as i kill my rubber every 3 months at the latest, switched to fastarc g1 and found it to be perfect

    BH rubber on the other hand...

  14. zeio is offline
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    #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Lula
    Pretty crazy that you were not welcome because of how you hold your racket. Were you an adult at this point? I can imagine it would be alot of noise and that people would be upset about this if they did this against a kid.
    No, just a kid. Though, the good thing with being a kid is you don't dwell on it and just move on.
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  15. Musaab is offline
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    #35
    I get what Der_Echte is coming from. My experience though suggests that equipments have non-negligible impact on your game. Just two recent revelations:

    1. I changed the blade from Tibhar something to Butterfly Primorac, since the latter has a thinner diameter, my serves became more controllable and effective, my wrist is way more comfortable on the Primorac.

    2. Last season I put 05 on my forehand for the first time, then it came to me naturally that to hell with blocking or active blocking on the forehand, I could counter topspin all the way and for some extent this is became my game that I deliberately push to my opponent forehand. I now use Rasanter R50, couldn't get the same feeling on this shot and until now I can't get the same consistency again.

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  16. iamsan is offline
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    #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte
    I do not blame Dan one bit for creating TTD and the additional features

    Any reasonable person who was around when Dan started TTD around a decade ago will know how he started and why. Dan had a vision, a plan.

    Dan wanted to make a top rate forum... and then have it evolve into many other things.

    - TT Pro Vid center
    - TT Equipment Review Center
    - TT News Center
    - TTD Coaching center
    - TT Store

    No other forum before TTD was able to put it all together over time... and it took Dan many years to get TTD going and into what it is now.

    Dan's vision was to make high quality TT products (Yes, a forum is a TT product) and turn it into a way to make a living from Table Tennis. I think that is the dream of many TT players - to find a way to stay in the sport they love and make some kind of living from it.

    Dan would not be able to leverage any of this if TTD did not have quality and the high number of visitor statistics TTD has. I do not suspect Dan makes a significant amount of money directly from TT gear reviews, whether it is on his review vid channel or written ones in the Equipment Review Center... yet all the visitor traffic stats allow him to get advertising...

    With time and trust from TTD members, Dan was able to introduce live and on-line coaching. I suspect that is and will be the lion's share of what will support him staying in TT, with some supplemental help from the TT store.

    If Dan REALLY wanted to expand advertising, he would create some busy looking TTD GOON SQUAD jersey design and mail those off to a few dozen players.
    U just picked up the least important sentence in my post. I don't blame Dan for the EJ-ness, still his reviews (which are great btw) does support the behaviour u disliked in the opening post, no need to talk around it.

    Btw I ask myself why there are so much carbon and other stuff released and advertised? I see the same 20th carbon blade by butterfly while there isn't a second version of primorac which should suit 90% of the player base. That's why ppl think there must be a reason these kind of blades are popular, even tho dishing out xxx euros for this.

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  17. Der_Echte is offline
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    #37
    Iamsam,

    Businesses forever "Churn" new sales by mastering the art of enticing people to want things they do not need. I dont blame businesses for trying either.

    With time, business will follow the market trends or go out of business if they cannot follow them in time or bend them to their objectives.

    I dont really blame an EJ for trying out new gear. It is fun and can give you more experience if you already have enough experience, knowledge and judgment.

    Some of us fit that bill, some do not.

    It is the rabid fanboy and extreme do not know do not care kind of EJ category who will reject sound advice and fret over every possible spec that is discouraging to the new contributor crowd.

    We could also make a strong arguement that strong personality members like myself and whoever that includes who write strong opinions are a discouraging factor to the new player crowd.

    I wrote the thread about the few minority potential new valuable contributor poster crowd... which likely is outnumbered by the new player or EJ crowd 10 to 1. So we will know what is good for business. I acknowledge and accept that.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

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  18. Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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    #38
    EJness makes you play worse not better.

    Its helping me improve a little bit my W/L ratio, yeah !

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    #39
    I stopped EJing since last year and I never felt better. In fact, I know that there are downsides to my setup, but I don’t care anymore. I’d rather practice and get good with this than going on the endless journey of finding happiness by buying stuff. But this isn’t something that can be taught. It can only be experienced. I’m pretty sure most of you guys had an EJ phase at some point as well, and I’m sure you wouldn’t have stopped EJing just because somebody in the Internet told you so. In other words, an EJing is not a crime, it’s a sickness.


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    #40
    A good way to stop EJing is to get a serious coach because he/she will to tolerate this. The 1 to 1 hours will also seriously decimate your TT budget. This has almost cured my addiction. 10 weeks and counting with the same setup.

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