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    1. Top | #1
      BryanY is offline
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      Tactics against short pips

      I’m playing tonight against a shake hand player who uses inverted on forehand and short pips on backhand. (I don’t think he twiddles)

      Both of us are around 1500 skill level. I’m a two wing looper who plays close to the table.

      So, I don’t have a lot of experience against short pips and the last time I played against him it was a disaster. The change (and lack of) pace on the ball was messing up my looping. And my blocking also.

      I’m looking for advice on how to deal with the short pip blocks and hits. My opponent is a lot older and lacks mobility I just need to make the proper adjustments for the ball. Of course I’m not really sure what those adjustments are.

      I’m think maybe I should loop/hit the ball later (when it starts to drop a little bit) so that I can get more spin on the ball? Not really sure. What do you guys suggest?

      Also, if I push the ball pops up too high and if I block it dumps into the net.


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    2. Top | #2
      Der_Echte is offline
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      Experience is key. Learning helps experience.

      You will simply need to learn how your opponent strikes the ball and adjust.

      One way to minimize the unknown is to go light to dead on your first touch... whether that be a light push or a dead or light spin shot placed well.

      You give light to dead and the spin variance will be little. You give a low and slow b.c. all, you will not be so surprised at what comes back.

      A 1500 level player will not loop 4 in a row in a competitive match vs pips.

      Make your first one COUNT.

      Set it up the best you can with a maximum of peedictability.

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    4. Top | #3
      Der_Echte is offline
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      A steady pips player will get you in ry o a push rally you have no chance to win.

      The pips player can attack your misread from a dead ball or simply wait for you to fail and laugh his or her azz off all the way to the scoreboard.

      Dont feed the troll.

      Give back one low slow dead ball and be ready.

      If you push light to dead, you might get one more chance to push to setup your attack. Be ready.

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    6. Top | #4
      Lightzy is offline
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      What's the actual problem? What is happening in the match?

      Short pips usually deaden the spin on the ball somewhat so it's likely if you're playing as you would against a regular rubber a lot of your shots go far off the table.
      Or are you finding a lot of your balls go in the net?

      What's happening exactly, and when?


      I don't think there's shortcut 'tactics' that can get you around having to fully understand what is happening in any given point.
      Last edited by Lightzy; 02-05-2019 at 09:00 PM.

    7. Top | #5
      BryanY is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lightzy View Post
      What's the actual problem? What is happening in the match?

      Short pips usually deaden the spin on the ball somewhat so it's likely if you're playing as you would against a regular rubber a lot of your shots go far off the table.

      Is that what's happening?
      Yes that’s mostly what happens.

      1) I overshoot the table because of less spin on the ball.

      2) The ball doesn’t accelerate after the bounce so the ball sort of drops further in front of where I would normally swing and contact the ball.

      3) if I try to push its often a dead ball that I will pop up too high.

      4) Blocks don’t rebound off my paddle.


      In summary, I have trouble with dead balls.


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    8. Top | #6
      Lula is offline
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      I have played with short pimples for almost 10 years so i know somewhat how you should play against them.

      In general when you play against short pimple there is less spin in the ball or almost backspin, so when you block a smash you need to block more upward and when you loop against it you need to loop a little more upward. You need to be more determined and not hesitate when you loop against it.

      Short pimple is great when you can hit at the highest point, because then you can smash. So if you play high balls against them they will smash it and you will have a hard time return it.

      Short pimples weakness is looping/lifting the ball since we can not play hard and no not get much spin.

      So if you can force the short pimple player to hit the ball below the highest point they can not smash it but need to lift/loop and you can counterattack. How do you do that? You vary the placement and pace so the short pimple player comes wrong to the ball and can not smash and need to lift it. Short pimle play is also alot about timing so if you vary the pace it will much harder for the short pimple player to smash the ball. But if you play the same pace and with poor placement so they short pimple player can hit at the highest point you will have trouble.

      Since the loop/lift is basically shit compared to looping with inverted you can use this to.

      If you push long good against the short pimple they can not do a very good opening loop and will more lift/loop the ball and you can counterloop it.

      You can also do good long serves against their pimple and the same will happen.

      The easiest alternative would be playing against their inverted rubber.

      I also think it can be good if you try to know if they have a pimple with grip or no grip. You can do this buy feeling the pips and try to spin a ball with it in the air. If it is pips with no grip or even medium long pips this is much harder i think, beacuse the ball will have much more effect. Against these rubbers you need to read the spin good and proably move well in back and forth. The push long, serve long tactic proably works best against no grips pips i think, but also okay against pips with grip.

      Good luck.

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    10. Top | #7
      Dr Evil is online now
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      Good advice from Lula.

      In the long run you'll get the hang of it. Best is a practice partner who uses pips. Also effective is a pips racket that you share with your practice partners so you all get the feel of playing against (and with) pips.

      For tonight just keep reminding yourself what you already know: you have to go forward more versus pips because the ball won't come to you, so be ready for in and out footwork. Adjust your racket angle for less spin, so a little more closed when pushing or looping a push and more open when blocking or looping against a block. And keep the ball low.

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    12. Top | #8
      suds79 is offline
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      I use to play short pips way back in the day and I remember the feeling back then when my inverted training partner passed me up. Always felt like he was the hammer and I was the nail as he simply could attack a higher % of balls. And that's simply the truth of inverted vs short pips. With short pips, you have to be more calculated. If a ball is low, chances are you can't straight like smoke it and still hit it in. You really have to pick your moments to attack.

      Hard for me to say do this, don't do that without seeing your match vs him but I also use to struggle vs short pips players back in the day. It's hard to explain but kinda like Dr Echte said, you need experience. He's probably getting you to make some errors. I'm telling you there will be a day probably years down the road where it no longer phases you. You're able to open up loop pretty easily vs his relative no spin balls.

      Vs older people I generally try to run them. Most older players in my experience like to stand somewhat towards the middle of the table and not get off their spot. Largely because they simply are not as nimble as they use to be. I would work on learning to spin up essentially any ball and try to play some wide angles. Move him around.
      Last edited by suds79; 02-05-2019 at 09:50 PM.

    13. Top | #9
      Lula is offline
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      Suds79! I somewhat disagree and agree. Short pimple is not as good against backspin push and low balls. Nothing to do about the backspin push, but you can try to avoid it. If you move well you can attack as much as balls as a player with inverted. But if you do not move well, then you should proably use inverted instead since it is easier to do a better ball when the balls is lower than the highest point with inverted.

    14. Top | #10
      Loopadoop is offline
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      Just remember, if you can't implement all these good ideas, to beat your opponent, you can always switch to long pips.

    15. Top | #11
      Lightzy is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by BryanY View Post
      Yes that’s mostly what happens.

      1) I overshoot the table because of less spin on the ball.

      2) The ball doesn’t accelerate after the bounce so the ball sort of drops further in front of where I would normally swing and contact the ball.

      3) if I try to push its often a dead ball that I will pop up too high.

      4) Blocks don’t rebound off my paddle.


      In summary, I have trouble with dead balls.
      Yeah that's what I figured.
      At first a lot of balls will annoyingly go off the table.

      You can compensate for that by closing your topspins more and/or try taking them earlier.
      If you wait might miss the ball because those no spin balls will not jump towards you like every other drive/spin from an inverted rubber coming your way. They jump more 'in place'.
      But in any case eventually you'll learn the timing and then it's easy.
      Be a lot more afraid of the attacking short-pimple player. Those attacks are nasty.
      Last edited by Lightzy; 02-06-2019 at 01:10 AM.

    16. Top | #12
      Takkyu_wa_inochi is online now
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      timing is a bit different, you have to do always those small steps to adjust your position quickly and watch the ball. Don't rush.

      tbh if you never train against a SP player its going to be difficult, but don't panic. Try to put your own LIGHT topspin on every ball , BH or FH. don't hit the ball too hard unless the ball is high, and you're in good position to kill the ball. IF you flat hit the ball but misread the (no)spin, you're gonna miss over the table a lot if you flat hit. because the ball is flatter, don't start the swing with the racket too low, and hit the ball more horizontally, time it a bit earlier than usual with the angle bat more closed.

      Serve and receive is gonna be key to win this game. Put an extra focus there ! Try a few different combos and see what works best for you. Long serves to his BH (flat or backspin) / short serve (flat or topspin) to his FH might be a good base tactic. Change from time to time to surprise him and get free points.

      If the guy is good with his BH try to avoid attacking it first. If he has SP because he is actually not so good with his BH but likes to pivot a lot, it might be better to serve more frequently on his FH first and attack his FH first and THEN block / rally to his BH

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