Blade for absolute starter

usualsuspect said:

And you can keep using the same blade as you get better, just change to better rubbers.

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I think this would be OK for the average adult (or even kid) who is playing the game for fun, and improving through playing more often, rather than coaching.

For a junior who is improving quickly through coaching through, I think this would be a mistake.

The way I see it (which I appreciate is different to others), and this only applies to a brand new junior who will be having regular coaching.....

Months 1-3: Cheap pre made Stiga (or another OK brand) - £10.

Months 3-12: All wood 5 ply with a mid range 1.9mm rubber (along the lines of Sriver).

Months 12-18: Same all wood blade but upgraded rubbers to 2.1mm (you could keep Sriver, or you could upgrade to something faster).

Months 18-24 Options - 1. Change to a carbon blade with 2.1mm attacking rubbers. 2. Keep all wood blade but definitely have 2.1mm attacking rubbers (if you didn't already). This will be entirely dependant on the current level.

Months 24 onwards: Carbon blade, attacking rubbers. That blade could easily last a lifetime from that point.

This is purely my theory of course, and people are free to disagree with it.

But I feel (personally), this gives the best balance across the board for a junior who is improving every week.

usualsuspect said:

"Butterfly" and "cheap" are not two commonly associated words.

Even for total beginners, I would recommend getting a custom made racket. I certainly wish someone told me this when I started out. Bad premade rackets are just a waste of money. Good premade rackets cost too much, and you are better off getting a custom racket with the same money.
There are many great options under $50. Like Yinhe/Galaxy Pro 5w, which is a good 5-ply looping blade at around $30. You can also get some decent Yinhe/Galaxy rubbers (Mars 2 - slightly tacky, Moon - non-tacky, Sun - tacky are all good choices) at around $10 per sheet.
$50 is not much investment. And you can keep using the same blade as you get better, just change to better rubbers.

Princett.com and Aliexpress have really good price on Chinese brands like DHS, Yinhe, and 729 Friendship, which is good for beginners on a budget.

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Last time I checked a non tensor rubber was at least like 8 years ago ... other non tensors of a known brands are actually about the price of srivers, just slightly less maybe ...

Yeah, not every beginner wants to invest 70-80 Pounds for the whole setup ... but its better to borrow rubbers and buy decent blade like the OP's friend, I think ...

NDH said:

Months 1-3: Cheap pre made Stiga (or another OK brand) - £10.

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Haha - Love a good GIF.

For reasons I've already explained, but in a nutshell.....

1. No idea if player will enjoy the sport - Might quit after a few weeks.
2. A £10 pre made Stiga bat will allow the beginner to play full shots whilst they are getting to grips with the mechanics.
3. Very insensitive to spin, so when the beginners are hitting with each other, they can actually get rallies going.
4. Tried and tested (at least in my area), and works really well as a base point.

NDH said:

I think this would be OK for the average adult (or even kid) who is playing the game for fun, and improving through playing more often, rather than coaching.

For a junior who is improving quickly through coaching through, I think this would be a mistake.

The way I see it (which I appreciate is different to others), and this only applies to a brand new junior who will be having regular coaching.....

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Hey, I totally agree with you there. My advice was meant for recreational players. I assumed regularly coached players would have their coach help selecting and upgrading their equipment, and wouldn't be looking for our help here.

NDH said:

I would guess that 90% of the UK table tennis population aren't comfortable changing their own rubbers.

Almost 100% wouldn't do it in the lower divisions, and only the mid/top divisions would be doing this (even then, not THAT many people would).

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This squares with my experience. Division 2 and above absolutely no one isn't gluing themselves, below that almost everyone is buying pre mades or getting someone else to glue for them (including tees sport or whatever).

jawien said:

For me "decent premade" is rather not a £10 racket, more like the price of Appelgren with srivers ... so why bother? As FruitLoop said these would be quite similar and with the premade you have problems taking rubbers off. Economically questionable ...

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Of course I'm not talking about some 10 - 15 € bat. I was thinking of a Butterfly premade with so called "Wakaba"-sponge, for example. Around 30 bucks and they are actaually quite good. Some of the older guys at my club use them. That should be enough for a (total) beginner for about 6 - 12 months. So I do not really agree that it would be "economically questionable" even though you cannot take the rubbers off of them...
Appelgren + Sriver or Stiga Allround + Mark V on the other hand cost you at least 70 - 80 € and it might discourage/ confuse some folks. By that, for instance, I mean a guy that showed up at our club just last night. He's about 25, quite fast and athletic (has been playing soccer for many years). He bought himself one of them 10 bucks premade, and as long as he played with some of the older guys he was doing rather fine (as far as I could see). Later he tried a Stiga Allround (with some Gewo allround rubbers I believe) from a girl not nearly as fast and athletic as him. He just could't handle the racket - too fast and spin sensitive (compared to his premade). With the racket from the girl he made much more (unforced) errors than with his own racket...it was a rather frustating experience for him which he didn't expect. He's probably sticking with his premade for a while.
Long story short: I do believe that decent premade bats like the Butterfly Wakaba stuff (or premade bats by Cornilleau) help total beginners more in developing stroke mechanics, getting more balls on the table and building confidence in their abilities, simply put.

NDH said:

I think this would be OK for the average adult (or even kid) who is playing the game for fun, and improving through playing more often, rather than coaching.

For a junior who is improving quickly through coaching through, I think this would be a mistake.

The way I see it (which I appreciate is different to others), and this only applies to a brand new junior who will be having regular coaching.....

Months 1-3: Cheap pre made Stiga (or another OK brand) - £10.

Months 3-12: All wood 5 ply with a mid range 1.9mm rubber (along the lines of Sriver).

Months 12-18: Same all wood blade but upgraded rubbers to 2.1mm (you could keep Sriver, or you could upgrade to something faster).

Months 18-24 Options - 1. Change to a carbon blade with 2.1mm attacking rubbers. 2. Keep all wood blade but definitely have 2.1mm attacking rubbers (if you didn't already). This will be entirely dependant on the current level.

Months 24 onwards: Carbon blade, attacking rubbers. That blade could easily last a lifetime from that point.

This is purely my theory of course, and people are free to disagree with it.

But I feel (personally), this gives the best balance across the board for a junior who is improving every week.

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I don't think they need carbon until they are on pretty much national level, but I know a lot of them want to use "pro" stuff quite quickly.

FruitLoop said:

I don't think they need carbon until they are on pretty much national level, but I know a lot of them want to use "pro" stuff quite quickly.

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Tricky one.

Need to use carbon? No, I agree.

But if they've had coaching for 2 years, they'll be pretty good, and certainly capable of wielding a carbon blade.

It'll depend on the individual of course, but I think introducing a carbon blade at that point could help them in the long run.

But again, it's all personal, and it would very much depend on the student!

Jimbob MacInbred said:

Of course I'm not talking about some 10 - 15 € bat. I was thinking of a Butterfly premade with so called "Wakaba"-sponge, for example. Around 30 bucks and they are actaually quite good. Some of the older guys at my club use them. That should be enough for a (total) beginner for about 6 - 12 months. So I do not really agree that it would be "economically questionable" even though you cannot take the rubbers off of them...
Appelgren + Sriver or Stiga Allround + Mark V on the other hand cost you at least 70 - 80 € and it might discourage/ confuse some folks. By that, for instance, I mean a guy that showed up at our club just last night. He's about 25, quite fast and athletic (has been playing soccer for many years). He bought himself one of them 10 bucks premade, and as long as he played with some of the older guys he was doing rather fine (as far as I could see). Later he tried a Stiga Allround (with some Gewo allround rubbers I believe) from a girl not nearly as fast and athletic as him. He just could't handle the racket - too fast and spin sensitive (compared to his premade). With the racket from the girl he made much more (unforced) errors than with his own racket...it was a rather frustating experience for him which he didn't expect. He's probably sticking with his premade for a while.
Long story shot: I do believe that decent premade bats like the Butterfly Wakaba stuff (or premade bats by Cornilleau) help total beginners more in developing stroke mechanics, getting more balls on the table and building confidence in their abilities, simply put.

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Sure, don't know Wakaba, but I thought Appelgern + srivers will be bit cheaper. Well Appelgren + some Frinedship will be about 50$. Anyways ... if in our club someone asks me about the equipment I always assume they want to stick with tt for a while, at least good equipment should help them stay.
The athletic/fast 25 yo guy, who can not handle Stiga Allround + allround rubbers is not a tt prospect anyways ... Just kidding.

They don't even "need" carbon on a national level, look at Gauzy for instance. It all comes down to playing style.

FruitLoop said:

I don't think they need carbon until they are on pretty much national level, but I know a lot of them want to use "pro" stuff quite quickly.

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NDH said:

Haha - Love a good GIF.

For reasons I've already explained, but in a nutshell.....

1. No idea if player will enjoy the sport - Might quit after a few weeks.
2. A £10 pre made Stiga bat will allow the beginner to play full shots whilst they are getting to grips with the mechanics.
3. Very insensitive to spin, so when the beginners are hitting with each other, they can actually get rallies going.
4. Tried and tested (at least in my area), and works really well as a base point.

Click to expand...

It works, for sure. But with so many cheap and good quality Yinhe/Sanwei blades out there, buying a premade for 3 months may not be the most cost efficient way.

NDH said:

Tricky one.

Need to use carbon? No, I agree.

But if they've had coaching for 2 years, they'll be pretty good, and certainly capable of wielding a carbon blade.

It'll depend on the individual of course, but I think introducing a carbon blade at that point could help them in the long run.

But again, it's all personal, and it would very much depend on the student!

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Only about half the national level kids I know use carbon. Not sure how many it really helps, it would only help the ones really struggling to finish points at the higher levels which most have no problem doing. I know you like your fast blades though!

I am for getting a good blade with just a cheap Chinese rubber that slow. As long as they are being trained correctly they will not have problems with spin sensitivity. I have had players who started using just a cheap pre-made chinese but that has 1.7mm sponge but the surface is tacky and their touch and spin are very good compared to kids who have very fast rubbers who have trained almost at the same time with them. I am just beign practical. if you have the capability to buy a good blade from the start and are serious about playing why buy a hobby bat? it still is a case to case basis.

lVegita said:

It works, for sure. But with so many cheap and good quality Yinhe/Sanwei blades out there, buying a premade for 3 months may not be the most cost efficient way.

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Wow, all these replies in quick succession show a lot of passion for coaching from TTD members and the possibility that there is more than one effective way.

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While Der_Echte has similar approaches to NHD in many areas, Der_Echte is not an avid recommender of starting out someone using crappy premade bats. Yet, I can see NHD's rationale and agree his approach can still be effective.

There are pros and cons to starting out a player using one of these bats. NHD did a bang up job of presenting them.

Der_Echte believes it comes down to risk assessment... of the player quickly becoming disgusted at their inability to play using suitable equipment and never come back to the sport.

NHD concluded on the side of using premade to mitigate this risk.

Der_Echte believes making the player understand from the get go that appropriate equipment requires a short adjustment period and that with proper effective coaching of strokes, a player can progress in lessons... thus no risk there.

I address the issue with my own assessment and comments.

Concern 1... Premade bats allow a player to keep more balls on the table over an appropriate bat.

True. However, these players will often be using garbage strokes mostly patty cake weak bumps mostly impacting under the ball just like they did with hardhat. These players will still need effective coaching and still need adjustment to use proper strokes in lessons.

The true risk of having a new player use an appropriate bat is not getting them into lessons right away and have them play matches vs other club members. They might lose these matches to a low level club player so bad, they may be under shock and awe to realize they made the wrong choice to pursue tt as a sport.

Concern 2... after concern one, it doesn't really matter much. A player receiving effective coaching is going to grow.

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That NHD sounds like some kind of imposter!

The arguement of cost of an extra blade... the pre made bat many of us agree is not really needed... yet can still work as NHD supports.

15 USD... 12 Euros... all while one sheet of appropriate modern control rubber is THREE TIMES that cost...

...and many players, once they play a few months end up purchasing a few different blades and rubbers of the appropriate or inappropriate class... for a total of more than TEN TIMES the cost of a premade bat...

...and that private lessons for an hour cost MANY TIMES the cost of one premade crap bat...

C'Mon Y'All... there is no valid arguement against the cost of a crap premade bat when contrasted to the normal expendatures of a tt player.

What manner of tightwad Scrooge misers are the tt crowd for buying a cheapo bat when they are inclined to spend many times more on unnessecary additional bats???

Let's get real folks and look at ourselves.



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NDH said:

That NHD sounds like some kind of imposter!

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Der_Echte has early stage dyslexia Alzheimers... but dont worry, it isnt contagious like EJ virus syndrom.

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For reference, my preference for a "cheap pre made" bat is less about cost, and more about the qualities (or lack of) of the set up.

Again, this is aimed more towards the junior spectrum, although it may benefit some adults (absolute beginners in both cases, but adults being likely to understand the mechanics a little better).

Give 2 beginners spinny rubbers, and ask them to rally - It doesn't work.

I guess one thing we haven't clarified is if this hypothetical beginner was in a group coaching session, playing socially, or having 1 to 1 lessons.

If it was 1 to 1, I can see the benefit of the custom bats people have discussed.

Otherwise I stand by my opinions