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  1. songdavid98 is offline
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    #1

    Balls hitting the edge of the racket

    Problem: over the years, I've hit lots of ball on the edge of my racket. This usually happens when the ball jumps out at me with topspin and I try to forehand loop it (but I've had it happen before even when it's not spinny. sometimes happens long backspin pushes to my backhand).

    I'm just wondering if anybody has had an issue like this and had a effective conceptual/technical solution.

    ********
    I've noticed that my backhand generally doesn't have this problem so I have thought of a few solutions that have somewhat mitigated the problem, but never fully solved it.

    I've tried raising my arm higher (trade off is that it becomes harder to close my racket).
    Standing further away helps too.

    I want to know what you guys think
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  2. zeio is offline
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  3. songdavid98 is offline
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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by zeio
    I've tried that: it's hard to get an arc and hard to get more spin. I want to be able to get more spin on my shot though. I've always wondered how the pros do their forehand loop. They go up quite a lot even though the ball is topspin, EDIT: and don't hit the edge that often
    Last edited by songdavid98; 02-15-2019 at 07:50 PM.
    Always go forward

  4. zeio is offline
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    #5
    I think i know the answer to this. Or atleast in my opinion, there are two answers to this.

    The angle of the racket is to close. So you have a higher chance to hit the edge. Maybe you still can brush the ball with the angle a little more open.

    You are starting the swing to early, and get to much distance from the ball and the racket. This makes the timing hard. Try to search in the ball, let the ball almost sit on the racket before you hit the ball.

    Maybe you also can try to think about what went wrong. I find it funny when players hit the edge and feel that it is bad luck. No, you have done something wrong when you hit the edge.

    Try this, and i think you will hit the edge less.

    Is there a term you say in the english language when you hit the edge? In swedish alot of people say "kicks" when they hit the edge. I have no idea what the origin of the word is.

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    #6
    Don't know what to tell ya other than I can relate.

    Things that have happened to me over the years that drive me crazy:
    - Ball clipping one of my fingers on RPB
    - Completely whiffing on a FH loop. (I generally try to hit the ball pretty thin for spin so this comes with the territory from time to time. But it still bugs me)

    I've sometimes wondered if juggling to help work on eye hand coordination as a strengthening exercise. But honestly I think it probably comes down to training time & multiball to hone in that contact point & technique. At least that'd be my guess. The club where I attend is only once a week so honestly you can only do so much with that amount of time. I guess it is what it is.

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    #7
    Lula has offered many worthwile suggestions. I have only a simple thing to say.

    Every now and then I have this a lot too. It's a timing thing, for me, and it gets aggravated by a lower level of overall fitness, but is also triggered by external circumstances. Sometimes we visit a club that has a much slower/softer flooring (e.g. a gym with linoleum floor) and/or tables with a very different bounce and depth. Sidespin also causes a higher percentage of edge hits.

    There is one simple thing I do that helps me to adapt. I force myself to keep my eye on the ball. Every now and then routine kicks in, and my attention strays - with ball contac becoming automated, a projection/extrapolation rather than observation. As I track the ball more closely up to and including my actual contact, I adapt and improve eventually.

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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by zeio

    This has to be one of the best videos ever translated. Thanks for performing a national treasure.

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    #9
    When the new ball came i was at an education for coaches and we were going to show different strokes. One coach said that you do not need to go down with the arm so much, like this guy say, because with the ball it is less spin. I think this is very true for flicking serves and short balls, it is much easier now with the plastic ball. I have also found it easier to smash with my pimples on pushes. And maybe i do not need to move the racket down so much on long pushes because it is less spin in the ball, but i still feel there are sometimes really good backspin in the ball so it is necessary to go down with the racket.

    Have you guys changed your technique when opening against backspin?

    I will try to not go down so much with the arm, and se what happens. I still think it is spin in the ball so i need to go down with the racket, but maybe i do not need to do it as much.

    I totally agree what he says that the technique do not need to look good, as long as it works.

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    #10
    My usual technique is to hit the ball with solid contact on the side and then push forward. I almost never racket edge unless I am too close to the table to let the ball kick.
    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Lula
    I totally agree what he says that the technique do not need to look good, as long as it works.
    It is great to hear it from a famous national Chinese coach.

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    #12
    What my coach keeps telling me is that these type of edge hits almost always is due to poor footwork. I used to believe that it was mainly due to misreading the incoming spin or the racket angle but I’m seeing these types of hits dramatically decreasing as my footwork is getting better. Just my 0.02$.

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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by mart1nandersson
    What my coach keeps telling me is that these type of edge hits almost always is due to poor footwork. I used to believe that it was mainly due to misreading the incoming spin or the racket angle but I’m seeing these types of hits dramatically decreasing as my footwork is getting better. Just my 0.02$.
    Getting the right separation from the ball enables you to judge the ball better. But so does experience judging spin, so sometimes, it is really just judging the ball better and not footwork.
    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

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    #14
    I blame this on two factors. The hitting the ball on random edges of the paddle I blame on my eye sight. I am older and my eyes do not change focus as the ball comes towards me or move away. I have a much easier time hitting balls that are coming straight at me to my back hand. In this case the ball is not moving across my field of view.

    When I get tired I often hit the ball with the top edge of my paddle. My stroke is getting slow.

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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel
    It is great to hear it from a famous national Chinese coach.
    What is the name of the coach?

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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Lula
    What is the name of the coach?
    Li Sun.

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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel
    Getting the right separation from the ball enables you to judge the ball better. But so does experience judging spin, so sometimes, it is really just judging the ball better and not footwork.
    Absolutely but I guess that everyone has got different issues with technique whether it is reading spin or placement/footwork. Having a coach pointing out what the issue is probably a good idea. I almost never edge hit with the BH as both my grip and balance is very BH dominant (due to poor footwork) but I hit the edge when FH looping quite often. This is whoever decreasing quite rapidly after my coach introduced drills which are focused on BH to FH transition.

    (This is an amazing sport as there’s a never ending list of things that you can improve)

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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Lula
    When the new ball came i was at an education for coaches and we were going to show different strokes. One coach said that you do not need to go down with the arm so much, like this guy say, because with the ball it is less spin. I think this is very true for flicking serves and short balls, it is much easier now with the plastic ball. I have also found it easier to smash with my pimples on pushes. And maybe i do not need to move the racket down so much on long pushes because it is less spin in the ball, but i still feel there are sometimes really good backspin in the ball so it is necessary to go down with the racket.

    Have you guys changed your technique when opening against backspin?

    I will try to not go down so much with the arm, and se what happens. I still think it is spin in the ball so i need to go down with the racket, but maybe i do not need to do it as much.

    I totally agree what he says that the technique do not need to look good, as long as it works.
    I've noticed I have to take the bat down less and back more against underspin with the new ball. It feels like you need to dig into the sponge more to grip the ball even with tacky rubber, otherwise you're more likely to have the ball slip. Since I made that change to thicker contact I have way less edge balls and still think I get the same level of spin as with brushier contact, just more speed and consistency.

    David, if you're talking about vs topspin, the two coaches I've worked with have worked to get me to spin through the ball with a flatter stroke. Body rotation gives the power and the wrist/lower arm gives the spin. You're a much higher level than I am and I'm just parroting the coaches, but it did help me.

  19. songdavid98 is offline
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Lula
    I think i know the answer to this. Or atleast in my opinion, there are two answers to this.

    The angle of the racket is to close. So you have a higher chance to hit the edge. Maybe you still can brush the ball with the angle a little more open.

    You are starting the swing to early, and get to much distance from the ball and the racket. This makes the timing hard. Try to search in the ball, let the ball almost sit on the racket before you hit the ball.

    Maybe you also can try to think about what went wrong. I find it funny when players hit the edge and feel that it is bad luck. No, you have done something wrong when you hit the edge.

    Try this, and i think you will hit the edge less.

    Is there a term you say in the english language when you hit the edge? In swedish alot of people say "kicks" when they hit the edge. I have no idea what the origin of the word is.
    Quote Originally Posted by zeio
    If anything, the video contradicts you on the early part. I am used to slower balls, and the fast balls are when I am more likely to hit the edge.
    Then again, the girl in the video still hits the edge of her racket despite the coach's advice, so who knows.

    I always think about what goes wrong, and it's definitely not racket angle; I definitely have to close my racket angle for counterloops, unless you can convince me otherwise.
    Always go forward

  20. Der_Echte is offline
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    #20
    The hitting edge of bat while trying a topspin shot is LATE IMPACT by a fraction. It doesn't take much.

    Of course, it is more consistent to strike the ball with a more open bat and direct impact, but that will cost you spin (unless you have the magic BANG impact of open bat with an H3 like rubber)

    There are some common reasons why we are late in timing.

    - We get to the spot too late (although you can get to position on time and still hit ball with edge of bat)

    - We are using a different bat with a different weight and shape - that changes the timing.

    - Your eyes are not yet used to the hall. It may take 30 minutes to get your eyes even halfway accustomed to the light... then yo move to a different table and cope with different light distribution.

    - The table and floor are reflective of light, and the background is not dark/contrasting the ball. This plays with your perception a lot.

    - You mis-judge the kind of spin and amount... so ball comes earlier than you think.

    - The ball is no longer (or was never) round, so it takes a false bounce. This makes all kind of errors.

    I read somewhere that the pros attributed the majority of their misses several years ago to the balls not being round. I believe what the pros say about this aspect.

    At LA Open 2018, I saw SO MANY PROS hit balls with edge of their bat. The ball used there wasn't a great one and the hall was really crappy with the lighting... not even 200 lux on court and crappy distribution.

    If I have to take a guess, it is the ball, then the light, then the mis-reading of impact as the top three reasons David is hitting the ball with the edge of his bat.

    Another possible reason is that Davis is still improving and his impact changes with the times while he is improving and not yet stabilized.

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