Balls hitting the edge of the racket

Originally Posted by thekleifheit13

I've noticed I have to take the bat down less and back more against underspin with the new ball. It feels like you need to dig into the sponge more to grip the ball even with tacky rubber, otherwise you're more likely to have the ball slip. Since I made that change to thicker contact I have way less edge balls and still think I get the same level of spin as with brushier contact, just more speed and consistency.

David, if you're talking about vs topspin, the two coaches I've worked with have worked to get me to spin through the ball with a flatter stroke. Body rotation gives the power and the wrist/lower arm gives the spin. You're a much higher level than I am and I'm just parroting the coaches, but it did help me.

I have tried flatter hits, but it's not as consistent, especially on blocks that are low. I can keep trying it out, but there's a limit to what you can do with a flatter hits.

Originally Posted by NextLevel

My usual technique is to hit the ball with solid contact on the side and then push forward. I almost never racket edge unless I am too close to the table to let the ball kick.

Do you usually stand a bit further away from the table?

Maybe high-level players stand further away from the table than I thought.

I will try the side-thing

Originally Posted by Der_Echte

The hitting edge of bat while trying a topspin shot is LATE IMPACT by a fraction. It doesn't take much.

Of course, it is more consistent to strike the ball with a more open bat and direct impact, but that will cost you spin (unless you have the magic BANG impact of open bat with an H3 like rubber)

There are some common reasons why we are late in timing.

- We get to the spot too late (although you can get to position on time and still hit ball with edge of bat)

- We are using a different bat with a different weight and shape - that changes the timing.

- Your eyes are not yet used to the hall. It may take 30 minutes to get your eyes even halfway accustomed to the light... then yo move to a different table and cope with different light distribution.

- The table and floor are reflective of light, and the background is not dark/contrasting the ball. This plays with your perception a lot.

- You mis-judge the kind of spin and amount... so ball comes earlier than you think.

- The ball is no longer (or was never) round, so it takes a false bounce. This makes all kind of errors.

I read somewhere that the pros attributed the majority of their misses several years ago to the balls not being round. I believe what the pros say about this aspect.

At LA Open 2018, I saw SO MANY PROS hit balls with edge of their bat. The ball used there wasn't a great one and the hall was really crappy with the lighting... not even 200 lux on court and crappy distribution.

If I have to take a guess, it is the ball, then the light, then the mis-reading of impact as the top three reasons David is hitting the ball with the edge of his bat.

Another possible reason is that Davis is still improving and his impact changes with the times while he is improving and not yet stabilized.

I did change my racket recently, but I wouldn't really blame that.
It probably is judgement, although sometimes, when I'm sure I know, I hit the edge.
Do you think I should just imagine the ball is spinnier?

This is a difficult thing to say.

If I was convinced that I am constantly late on my impact timing, I would need a way to adjust. Visualizing there is more spin to start the swing a tad earlier is one way to adjust.

This would be opponent specific. I would have to be sure of why I was late or that I was consistently late to try an adjustment like that.

Recently changing the racket would account for a few sessions, since you have had this a while, it likely isn't your bat.

Maybe you have an opponent who is difficult to judge their impact. This can give one problems for sure. If you notice a certain pattern of how you miss vs an opponent's certain shot, sure an adjustment is in order like the one you suggest.

One way I adjust to LP players who bump or hit is to SLOW DOWN my timing. I tell myself to WAIT. Another adjust I do vs that kind of player is to MOVE FORWARD a tad right when they hit... this makes the ball come into my effective strike zone at the time I instinctively hit. Without such adjustments, my timing vs LP bumpers and hitters is crappy sometimes.

These are examples of need for adjustments and executing them. Sometimes you have a player who impacts ball differently on topspin shots or just adds more spin that it looks like and you are too late on your impact. On those balls, you either have to find a way to impact a tad earlier of get back a tad more to get impact timing and strike zone right.

One might never realize the reasons behind why they do not read the ball. That is assuming mis-reading is the cause. The balls we use are not perfect, not are the tables... we still have many errors from the balls and besides taking it right off the bounce, it is a difficult thing.

Originally Posted by songdavid98

Do you usually stand a bit further away from the table?

Maybe high-level players stand further away from the table than I thought.

I will try the side-thing

I usually play close and take the ball early. I cannot move well but I also can't bend too low so I am trying to find the right distance to compromise. But to take the ball early consistently, I need to touch the side of the ball to control spin at the table, I don't read spin well enough to use racket angles.

Originally Posted by songdavid98

I did change my racket recently, but I wouldn't really blame that.
It probably is judgement, although sometimes, when I'm sure I know, I hit the edge.
Do you think I should just imagine the ball is spinnier?

Changing your racket can easily do it. The weight affects timing.

I guess one thing I should mention is that I play against a lot of junk players and I'm used to the slow balls that come from them.

Should I just fast-forward myself when I play with people that are normal?

Originally Posted by Der_Echte

..........
Recently changing the racket would account for a few sessions, since you have had this a while, it likely isn't your bat.....................................

Not too sure about that. Some players never get used to or need much more time after a bat change. Whether it's because of grip change, weight, size or whatever, the general fine tuned handing is may take longer than expected to achieve. This lack of adjustment results in timing errors; missed balls through playing over the ball or top edging the ball.
The other thing is that the OP may have modified his stroke play without realising it to compensate for whatever characteristic the bat encourages
I wonder if the OP has also experienced an increase in the number of missed serves? If so, then it's definitely the bat.

Problem: over the years, I've hit lots of ball on the edge of my racket. This usually happens when the ball jumps out at me with topspin and I try to forehand loop it (but I've had it happen before even when it's not spinny. sometimes happens long backspin pushes to my backhand).

David said he has had this problem over the years, so it isn't just his bat. (Unless he was changing bats every few months) Yes, I do believe different bats are very difficult to get the fine timing down right. TTD member erm is prolly the world's largest EJ and tries out 6-10 different combinations every session. When he is using a bat other than his main one... edge city. After 6-10 bats tryout and he plays more serious doubles game with his normal bat... edge city again at first. Different bat making it hard and experiencing more edges is real. Since David has had this year in and out, likely something different than a different bat.

Heavy topspin balls can be hard to judge, ditto for a ball with less spin where it looks like it is a heavy ball. Even for a player of David's advanced level.

I already detailed what I think are possible reasons for a player to miss, no matter the level.

I am sticking to the order of ball out of round, play venue not perfect contrast, and general mis-judgment.

How to adjust?

Tough to do when you strike a certain ball correct most of the time and only occasionally strike ball with bat edge... usually it is late impact timing and you do wat it takes to make timing a tad earlier... if that doesn't mess up the timing of the shot since he was making it most of the time right.

If the ball is not out of round, the answer will be just reading impact and the ball better with time.
Maybe another thing is sometimes under pressure we hit in a different part of the impact zone and timing is different for that part of the zone. (example - hit too far in front of the effective impact zone - that can make a late impact too)

Originally Posted by NextLevel

This has to be one of the best videos ever translated. Thanks for performing a national treasure.

Serving the TT people! BTW, I fixed some minor errors and added a few missing lines.

Originally Posted by NextLevel

This has to be one of the best videos ever translated. Thanks for performing a national treasure.

The videos definitely add knowledge.
What did you find most useful or eye-opening?

For me, it was the advice to tense the abs when striking the ball.
I tried this morning on my robot and there was a definite power increase from what I thought to be my regular stroke. Plus, one gets that breathing out on stroke to be more regular.
However, I'm not sure that I can work it into my subconscious play.