Hard European topspin rubber

Airoc · Feb 22, 2019

LeoCH said:
You could consider:
Tenergy 05 hard

Stiga Mantra H

Both excellent, but not European in the sense of the thread title. Japanese made rubbers still play a little different, for some this matters a lot.

As for the European rubbers, you could take a look at GEWO Hype XT 50 and the upcoming HARD versions of Nexxus, and of course the 50 degree version of Evolution MX-P that Tibhar has coming. If you´ve played with it when it wasn´t yet publicly available you know that one is worth the wait

Jimbob MacInbred · Feb 22, 2019

langel said:
I agree with most of the thing here, as many times I try to explain like this.

BUT - Xiom Vega China is a typical tacky rubber designed for the chinese style of play. The fact that its a 4G ESN tensor doesn't mean that its a uropean style rubber.

Fair enough, langel. I'm aware that the name suffix "China" might confuse people, including OP. I briefly had the Vega China on my Akkad and I've seen first hand that the tackiness on the China wears off very quickly (lasted only a few days or maybe a week). After that it is "only" very very grippy. The Vega China is certainly less tacky than Genesis II, Sanwei Target National or some Hurricane.

Jimbob MacInbred · Feb 22, 2019

Airoc said:
Both excellent, but not European in the sense of the thread title. Japanese made rubbers still play a little different, for some this matters a lot.

As for the European rubbers, you could take a look at GEWO Hype XT 50 and the upcoming HARD versions of Nexxus, and of course the 50 degree version of Evolution MX-P that Tibhar has coming. If you´ve played with it when it wasn´t yet publicly available you know that one is worth the wait

A hard Nexxus EL? That's going to be a must have for me! Thanks for the info...

langel · Feb 22, 2019

NDH said:
That's good info!

I'm not someone who has ever concerned themselves with the particulars of EJ'ing - I generally use a blade I like the look of (providing it's in the "ballpark" of what I want) - I don't worry about the weight of blade (or rubbers) either.

As for the rubbers, I've never once concerned myself with how hard the sponge is, or what the top sheet is composed of and how this affects play.

I feel I'd never make a choice if I did all this! haha.

Prime example is this very discussion we are having.

Looks like T05 Hard does in fact have a harder sponge than MX-S, yet due to the top sheet, it feels softer.

Well...... What does that translate to the every day user?

I'm assuming most people asking for a harder sponge, will want it for the feedback it provides - i.e - They want it to feel harder.

So if T05H WAS harder, but FELT softer...... Is that off the table?

What a world we live in........

We live in a world providing a lot of choice to every one, and a proper choice if the choice is well informed.
I find this great variety of different rubbers to serve well to players with different techniques and personal preferences.
I would like to say that with such situation its important to read not the separate characteristics only, but to have in mind the ratio between them. Its not the separate topsheet or sponge hardness/thickness - its the ration between them plus some other factors, that make the real difference in performance between the rubbers.

FruitLoop · Feb 22, 2019

NDH said:
I’d love to see an independent measurement because MX-S felt much harder from memory.

Might be to do with the top sheet hardness.

NDH · Feb 22, 2019

langel said:
We live in a world providing a lot of choice to every one, and a proper choice if the choice is well informed.
I find this great variety of different rubbers to serve well to players with different techniques and personal preferences.
I would like to say that with such situation its important to read not the separate characteristics only, but to have in mind the ratio between them. Its not the separate topsheet or sponge hardness/thickness - its the ration between them plus some other factors, that make the real difference in performance between the rubbers.

Oh, I get that.

I think my point was more to do with the fact that this abundance of options we are presented with, only benefits the very elite who can really narrow down each little option.

99.9% of people on these forums talking about blade weight, rubber hardness, top sheet composition....... Just don't have the capability to get the most out of the options (myself included).

People definitely over analyse the situation and up with equipment beyond their playing level.

I'm not knocking those who enjoy EJ'ing, but the actual end results won't differ much.......

langel · Feb 22, 2019

Yes, you are right.
But the actual end results may really differ a lot or not so much, and it depends on many personal factors, not only the level.

iamsan · Feb 22, 2019

Nobody can compare G-1 with MX-S and Vega Pro?

iamsan · Feb 22, 2019

I wonder T05H be that much harder than Hard European rubbers

yoass · Feb 22, 2019

iamsan said:
Nobody can compare G-1 with MX-S and Vega Pro?

I believe NextLevel has dedicated a few words to Vega Pro and FA G-1, and I recall him saying they're more or less in the same ballpark, with the G-1 being the slightly more linear one (and him preferring it for that reason).

Having played with Vega Pro and dabbled with MX-S, Vega Pro (to me) is a fast, spinny, bouncy rubber. Hard to play passively, but quite forgiving in active strokes. MX-S is a beast, with loads of power and very high upper bounds in both spin and speed, but very demanding, unforgiving, and requiring full dedication on every stroke.

eduardo1995filipe · Feb 22, 2019

LeoCH said:
You could consider:
Tenergy 05 hard
Cornelieau Target xt 51
Stiga Mantra H
Rasanter R50
Xiom omega 7 asia/tour

Is Stiga Mantra H as hard as 50º ESN scale?

hipnotic · Feb 22, 2019

I have been playing with G1 on the FH, but i'm giving MX-S a try. After just one training session i'm inclined to agree with yoass, MX-S is a very good rubber but very demanding. It feels slightly harder than G1, but the G1 is well worn while the MX-S is brand new. I'm hoping it will soften up a bit, otherwise i might boost it. Other than that they are similar rubbers but MX-S has an edge regarding spin, speed and power, but with less control and forgivness. I also felt that MX-S a a slightly lower throw.

Jimbob MacInbred · Feb 22, 2019

eduardo1995filipe said:
Is Stiga Mantra H as hard as 50º ESN scale?

The sponge of the Mantra H is ~ 47° on ESN. But as previously mentioned, the hardness of the topsheet plays a significant part in how hard (of soft) a rubber feels overall.

eduardo1995filipe · Feb 22, 2019

Jimbob MacInbred said:
The sponge of the Mantra H is ~ 47° on ESN. But as previously mentioned, the hardness of the topsheet plays a significant part in how hard (of soft) a rubber feels overall.

Thank you!

NextLevel · Feb 22, 2019

yoass said:
I believe NextLevel has dedicated a few words to Vega Pro and FA G-1, and I recall him saying they're more or less in the same ballpark, with the G-1 being the slightly more linear one (and him preferring it for that reason).

Having played with Vega Pro and dabbled with MX-S, Vega Pro (to me) is a fast, spinny, bouncy rubber. Hard to play passively, but quite forgiving in active strokes. MX-S is a beast, with loads of power and very high upper bounds in both spin and speed, but very demanding, unforgiving, and requiring full dedication on every stroke.

Yes, I agree with this. I have played with all 3. G1 also seemed to me to have better grip than Vega Pro on slow shots as it is not bouncy but others may disagree. MX-S doesn't give an easy arc but the ball quality for a good stroke is very high. It is also good for blocking and pushing and killing backspin balls. But for all round offensive play as well as the potential to play any style at a high level, I would still push for G1. It is a good enough rubber that I don't feel I am compromising by saving money while using it.

NextLevel · Feb 22, 2019

NDH said:
Oh, I get that.

I think my point was more to do with the fact that this abundance of options we are presented with, only benefits the very elite who can really narrow down each little option.

99.9% of people on these forums talking about blade weight, rubber hardness, top sheet composition....... Just don't have the capability to get the most out of the options (myself included).

People definitely over analyse the situation and up with equipment beyond their playing level.

I'm not knocking those who enjoy EJ'ing, but the actual end results won't differ much.......

I am not even sure it benefits the elite to be honest in quite the way you think it does. There is an unwritten consensus that Butterfly makes the best rubbers but don't need to sponsor more players to sell rubbers so if you are not a strategic investment, they won't sponsor you. And if you are sponsored by a brand that wants you to use their equipment, this puts you in a tough spot if you agree that Butterfly makes the best stuff for your game. So it benefits the elite by having more companies to sponsor them, but not sure about playing quality etc.

Jimbob MacInbred · Feb 22, 2019

eduardo1995filipe said:
Thnak you!

You're welcome.

langel · Feb 22, 2019

iamsan said:
I wonder T05H be that much harder than Hard European rubbers

Xiom Omega 7 Tour is harder than T05Hard.

FruitLoop · Feb 22, 2019

NextLevel said:
Yes, I agree with this. I have played with all 3. G1 also seemed to me to have better grip than Vega Pro on slow shots as it is not bouncy but others may disagree. MX-S doesn't give an easy arc but the ball quality for a good stroke is very high. It is also good for blocking and pushing and killing backspin balls. But for all round offensive play as well as the potential to play any style at a high level, I would still push for G1. It is a good enough rubber that I don't feel I am compromising by saving money while using it.

As a Vega Pro user who would appreciate the added linearity and supposedly extra spin this would be worth a test in the off season? Is it the same speed or a tiny bit slower? Same throw?

erm · Feb 22, 2019

i don't know what your level is but going to H3 to any european hard sponge will require a slight change in technique, and depending on the throw of the rubber regardless how hard it is... it will impact your swing speed. People have given you good options some are low throw and range up to mid- throw...I would first recommend going to the slightly sticky Tibhar K series such as K1 pro or regular...K1 pro is my first choice for you untuned... or if you want just do one heavy layer of tuning for it
Non sticky i would also recommend mx-s, mx-p or rasanter 50, rhyzer 50, omega 7, gewo KR, 05 hard, but with 1-2 layers of tuner/booster
did you tune your H3?

Hard European topspin rubber

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