ZhangLei on MaLong's injury: Very serious, may affect 2020 olympics.

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Vladi had his games more spread out. To be more precise, Vladi had only played 18 games at the time Ma Long has played his 43rd at German Open.

He didn't play 43 games, only 39 games. And won most of these 3-0 3-1 4-1

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Also, ITTF stats page doesn't include Chinese Super League.

The league games from Samsonov aren't included either. The stats doesn't include training games either which is probably the main issue. Someone like Ma Long trains several hours per day usually.
 
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It is - the problem is that you are exclusively focused on mobility because you don't have an appreciation of the full impact of TT on the body. As in, I know people who play both, and find it easier to play tennis than table tennis. There is an unnatural focus on bending knees and staying low in table tennis and the strokes stress the tendons unnaturally. The sports have different physical demands on the body at the highest levels. Even the way I play now is not the same as the way I played when I was fitter. Both are sports that injure people but you don't have a serious idea of the degree of repetitive stress injury that is possible with table tennis.

You need to bend in tennis also, the tendons also are put through the ringer, especially around the elbow. There is even an injury named after the sport, tennis elbow! I think you are doing the same as you accuse me of, not appreciating the increased demands at elite level tennis that don't exist in table tennis. There is a reason it's like Karakasevic or even Vladi can still play at a high level whereas in tennis they'd be done years ago. Some people might find tennis easier the way they play it, that is different than what it is like at an elite level. I see old people play tennis all the time, the way they play it is very recreational and barely more than a light jog in terms of intensity. This is not relevant to the elite levels.

In many sports there is potential for repetitive strain injuries despite the sport not overall being as demanding due to some technical repetitive motion stressing specific tendons etc. But this is not from playing tournaments but from the training load over many years. This needs to be managed well, the fact Chinese players generally can't make it to 30 suggests they are not able to do this very effectively right now. They are not managing the physical preparation, training demands and prehab well it seems. But it's easy to blame ITTF for making a player have to play an extra tournament or two when they build up the same stress in less than a week of normal training than their entire annual competitive load.
 
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That's on the German team. Also Timo is 37. Some tennis players are injured all the time, many are not. Federer wasn't injured for over a decade at one point.

Samsonov is playing at 42.

The amount of tournaments they play per year after the new rules is still tiny compared to other sports.

They need to prepare better physically. I have seen lots of footage of their strength training and they train with poor form and many useless exercises just for example.


that's some hilarious stuff right there. gotta love internet experts
 
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that's some hilarious stuff right there. gotta love internet experts

The form and exercise selection of many elite table tennis teams is hilarious and goes against everything we know about proper physical preparation. There is a reason the experts in those fields work in American sports, soccer, rugby, athletics etc and not table tennis.
 
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The form and exercise selection of many elite table tennis teams is hilarious and goes against everything we know about proper physical preparation. There is a reason the experts in those fields work in American sports, soccer, rugby, athletics etc and not table tennis.

Whatever makes you happy :) keep posting funny stuff
 
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Blaming carbs is an interesting (the British meaning of the word) theory. Look at East African long distance runners who practically live on carbs in the shape of teff, ugali and cups of tea spiced with 1dl of sugar. They train extreme hours at an effort which is miles higher than any TT player and yet can have very long careers (stepping down from track to road/marathon later in their careers). Just have a look at Lagat and Keflezigi in the US who are doing “pretty” well way into their 40ies fueled on East African diets.
 
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He didn't play 43 games, only 39 games. And won most of these 3-0 3-1 4-1
this is the ITTF stats page:
cache.php

I don't know where the discrepancy comes from. Of the listed 43 matches he forfeited one at Swedish Open, so make it 42. In terms of games (as in first to 11 game, aka set) played, if you insist, Ma Long played 166 games, Vladi 88 (up until the point Ma Long played his last international game of the season). That's the problem with just going "oh but he wins easily all the time, 3-0, 4-1 how hard can it be". It's a plausible and believable argument that is factually wrong and needs proofs.

The league matchs are not included for both, fair enough. Ma Long still played far more matches - 28 in CSL and National Championships (this thingy) against Vladi's 6 in Champions League. He played another 13 in Russian Premier League, but his opponents there are ranked 700-1000 in world ranking, with very rare exceptions.

that's some hilarious stuff right there. gotta love internet experts
what do you want from the guy, he says my 7 years of training is irrelevant and then his argument ends up being that he's seen lots of footage.
 
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Your 7 years of training is irrelevant." I played tennis for 7 years and I think this" is not an argument. You have no idea how much tennis I have played and it doesn't matter. Because I made actual arguments. You made an appeal to authority without further elucidation, your own authority! It can simply be dismissed as irrelevant because it is, it's laughable.

You wonder if you could find a single actual authority who would come close to agreeing with you? You won't, but I wait with baited breath.
 
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talking about the physical training of pro tt players i have to agree that the training methods are more than questionable in most cases where i have seen them. I am Trainer myself which is actually my occupation and i work with first league rugby players and second league handball players in germany so in my personal opinion there is a lot of room for tabletennis to improve when comes to physical training and recovery. but then again, i haven t seen enough footage of pros to make a funded argument just the impression i got so far.
 
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Blaming carbs is an interesting (the British meaning of the word) theory. Look at East African long distance runners who practically live on carbs in the shape of teff, ugali and cups of tea spiced with 1dl of sugar. They train extreme hours at an effort which is miles higher than any TT player and yet can have very long careers (stepping down from track to road/marathon later in their careers). Just have a look at Lagat and Keflezigi in the US who are doing “pretty” well way into their 40ies fueled on East African diets.

Very interesting (the American meaning of the word) observation. Still, the training regime of elite distance runners is so unique and extreme that I would hesitate to draw conclusions from their longevity.
 
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I'm no expert in physical training but CNT, e.g., have a bunch of foreign fitness coaches with reputation from other sports for what it's worth. They really should know what they're doing.

China lead the way but they are still behind other sports. They have gotten way more advanced in the last while but yet it is still not working. Their players are putting in insane loads from young ages and seem to flame out young. This is not an inevitability. They must manage their training plans, prehab work and general physical preparation better. Other countries don't seem to have the same amount of problems probably because they don't have as many miles on the clock at such a young age as there is no way their regimes aren't worse. There is no doubt LGL etc will be looking at this in the background. Other sports have actually increased the longevity of their players, despite an increase in demands due to superior sport science (and no doubt drugs). Table tennis is not in the same boat at this point.

I know from experience the physical preparation regimes in some small European countries for TT are not even amateur. Like it would be an insult to other amateur disciplines, they are non existent and what they do do tends to do more harm than good. They don't have any money or expertise at all in these areas. The bigger countries lead the way more but even they are rather amateur compared to monied sports. There are international players who have never lifted a weight, done any resistance exercise or stretched statically or dynamically in their lives practically. Nevermind gone through a proper multi disciplinary regime of physical preparation which is the norm in other sports.
 
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There's also a lot of genetics involved with the best marathoners, which kinda overshadows their diet, training methods etc., see
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4037248/
Indeed, no conclusion can be drawn.

This is false. Conclusions can certainly be drawn, even if they come with caveats. You can't just throw out the data because it doesn't suit you and has a complex set of factors governing the results. The conclusions might not be overly illustrative bit that is different than none can be drawn at all.
 
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The body needs glycogen to operate at high efforts. I'm quite sure that Mr Long operates at a fairly effort and is no stranger to cardio. You can refill glycogen via carbs or let the body convert fat (via ketosis). Ketosis is slow and your reactions will also be slower. I have a hard time seeing that TT at an elite level would be possible using a low carb diet.

(Yes. You can become fat by eating a lot of carbs if you have a sedentary lifestyle.)
 
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