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    1. Top | #1
      toekneema is offline
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      How to backhand loop a super spinny pendulum serve that comes long

      I feel as though the only way to return these super long and fast left sidespin pendulum serves is to slow loop/guide the ball back with my BH. I can't really loop drive it or do anything extremely aggressive. I've attached the link to a video to show what I mean, this is me vs. a friend of mine who has a nasty penhold serve (juices the hell out of the ball with sidespin and sometimes top sometimes underspin). What do pros do against long sidespin serves to their backhand. Should you be able to kill these balls with a BH loop?

      https://youtu.be/mK44sk3JXDE

    2. Top | #2
      Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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      you received very well the first serve. Why aren't you happy with it ?

      In TT you're not supposed to go for receive winners all the time, especially against a good and difficult serve ?

      The second serve had more backspin and you want to hit it too hard, not using enough your legs and you're playing while going back. Its not an easy ball, you either have to be a bit further away from the table when receiving to begin with [you're too close from the table when waiting for the serve], and/or time the ball a bit earlier so that you are not caught in this situation. You will have more margin for error if you receive with less power.

    3. Top | #3
      zeio is offline
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      You need Digunikusu Zerogo.

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    5. Top | #4
      Der_Echte is offline
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      You could try Loose 50. Loose grip, 50 brush, 50 graze, very loose grip, low medium power. Sure you gotta read the spin, but the loose grip will eat some of the spin and make it safer to return.
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    6. Top | #5
      zeio is offline
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      Serious mode. The OP needs a real BH loop. The 1st serve was loaded with side-top. The OP merely redirected the return using the incoming spin. You could interpolate what would happen for the 2nd serve, which is loaded with heavy side-under.

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    8. Top | #6
      Lula is offline
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      Like the second poster said. If you return the serve well keep on doing that. But you need to change depending on the spin. Easiest would be to loop sidetop and push sidebackspin.

      I also think it is good to have a bh loop. But i do not think he really need a amazing one to return a sidespin serve. If he reads the spin correct i think he could almost counter, or use a somewhat bad loop against sidetop and push against sidebackspin. I also think he will return it easier if he aims for the opponents forehand. Mayb he can use his forehand aswell if the opponent is always serving to the bh. But without a good bh loop the return might not be very good.

    9. Top | #7
      Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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      Also against this kind of sidespin , if you are almost sure that this serve is coming and if the ball is not going on the short side of the table it might be a good idea to try a FH receive going straight hitting the ball on the right side to counter the sidespin.

    10. Top | #8
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      I'm was suffering with those serves, the first that you can do is prepare for the service, you should bent more your knees, loose your fingers and wrists, stand on your toes, then will be easier do a short and fast move adjustment, try to anticipate where the ball goes, even when the services are long both those are not the same, so try to adjust your stance to the ball. You can return on short, long backspin or attack BH, if you want kill the point FH be sure to have the enough space and hit with confidence, that is very important too, btw do you feel sure in your strokes and your game? And the last, try always to play focused, then you'll improve faster.

    11. Top | #9
      NextLevel is offline
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      Guys, the OP is a better player than most of us (definitely than me at least). People should place that in context when responding.

      The issue with confidently killing a serve with the backhand is that you don't have the same room to adjust to the spin and you also need very powerful backhand technique. Since you don't have a lot of room to adjust to the spin, reading the spin and trajectory early is more critical so going for power against a good serve will lead to a lot of errors when the ball moves. Many pros if the serves are repeatedly coming long pivot and use the forehand. Against a player roughly at the same level as you are, placing the return well and getting ready to rally is typical. If the player is weaker, pivoting and using the forehand is the norm unless you are just in the mood to do something else.


      Your loop looks fine you just need to practice more against the different spins and try going for it sometimes. Obviously you may need to try more power from the hips etc and practicing backhand looping away from the table so you can work on using the body to get more power. But if you don't read the spin it won't matter.
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    13. Top | #10
      NDH is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      Guys, the OP is a better player than most of us (definitely than me at least). People should place that in context when responding.
      Isn't this a worldwide TT issue? Haha.

      If a decent player is asking for advice (and genuine advice like it seems to be here, not the fake advice which is just a way to show off how good they are), you are going to get "textbook experts" answer, as the majority of players are sub 2000 on these forums (from what it seems).

      There was a thread recently of a player doing some forehand drive/loops - The shots looked decent, although a simple forehand to forehand drill is not an indication of playing ability.

      It felt like the OP at the time was simply wanting praise for being good - Rather than genuine advice (appreciate I'm very cynical.......)

      If the OP of this thread is good (and his first backhand loop looked decent), I'm not sure what people online can offer.

      With something so spinny, it's difficult to get a quality return of serve - You certainly won't be making many powerful returns in these instances.

      My advice would be to place the ball deep where the opponent doesn't like it, and then follow up with a 4th ball attack.

      Don't try and do too much with the actual return (which it looks like they did in the 2nd attempt).

    14. Top | #11
      FruitLoop is offline
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      I don't see anything particularly wrong with your first receive. You won't be able to loop kill those types of serves unless you are many levels above your opponent in ability. The second receive vs side backspin you used too short and stabby a stroke. Little bit more relaxed and let it flow through the ball.
      Last edited by FruitLoop; 02-25-2019 at 12:48 PM.

    15. Top | #12
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      Just push the ball back. He will miss the 3rd ball often enough on his own.

    16. Top | #13
      NextLevel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NDH View Post
      Isn't this a worldwide TT issue? Haha.

      If a decent player is asking for advice (and genuine advice like it seems to be here, not the fake advice which is just a way to show off how good they are), you are going to get "textbook experts" answer, as the majority of players are sub 2000 on these forums (from what it seems).

      There was a thread recently of a player doing some forehand drive/loops - The shots looked decent, although a simple forehand to forehand drill is not an indication of playing ability.

      It felt like the OP at the time was simply wanting praise for being good - Rather than genuine advice (appreciate I'm very cynical.......)

      If the OP of this thread is good (and his first backhand loop looked decent), I'm not sure what people online can offer.

      With something so spinny, it's difficult to get a quality return of serve - You certainly won't be making many powerful returns in these instances.

      My advice would be to place the ball deep where the opponent doesn't like it, and then follow up with a 4th ball attack.

      Don't try and do too much with the actual return (which it looks like they did in the 2nd attempt).
      Well, because of my experiences on online forums, it is something I try to call attention to and which thankfully is much better here than it is on most forums. It is very common to think you have deep insights if you haven't played a lot or worked with a lot of higher level players who give you their own insights. Higher level insights even sometimes conflict and you have to look at the players and their strengths to understand some perspectives.

      You know all this so I am just preaching to the choir. But in case people don't know how good this guy is, here is his match on his own channel from yesterday.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmPhwEs8shw

      He has only been playing about 2-3 years so he is likely to break 2200 fairly easily (and likely 2300 and possibly 2400 depending on how much time he is willing to put in as he gets older, but it is not beyond his reach). OF course it will not feel easy to him, but just placing it in the context of what usually happens if you get that good in 2 years.

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    18. Top | #14
      Lula is offline
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      I like his hairstyle, i had the same thing when i was around 15. He must be a pretty funny dude i think when he have his hair that way as an adult haha

      Found it somewhat strange that this guy do not know how to return a sidespin serve. Feel like the other strokes looks pretty okay so he should be able to know how to return a sidespin serve. But everyone have different strengths.

      I think it is hard to tell how fast he will break a certain level. I think the developement can be rather unlinear and can have some long plateus some time.

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    20. Top | #15
      NDH is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      He has only been playing about 2-3 years so he is likely to break 2200 fairly easily (and likely 2300 and possibly 2400 depending on how much time he is willing to put in as he gets older, but it is not beyond his reach). OF course it will not feel easy to him, but just placing it in the context of what usually happens if you get that good in 2 years.
      Aha, that will explain a lot.

      It takes quite a few years before you become confident enough in your own ability to realise that you are likely better than most online players!

      That YT video was a good insight into his level, and if he's only been playing a few years, it's a very good start.

      What USTT rank is he currently?

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    22. Top | #16
      NextLevel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NDH View Post
      Aha, that will explain a lot.

      It takes quite a few years before you become confident enough in your own ability to realise that you are likely better than most online players!

      That YT video was a good insight into his level, and if he's only been playing a few years, it's a very good start.

      What USTT rank is he currently?
      He is almost 2100. So 2000-2100.

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    24. Top | #17
      NextLevel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lula View Post
      I like his hairstyle, i had the same thing when i was around 15. He must be a pretty funny dude i think when he have his hair that way as an adult haha

      Found it somewhat strange that this guy do not know how to return a sidespin serve. Feel like the other strokes looks pretty okay so he should be able to know how to return a sidespin serve. But everyone have different strengths.

      I think it is hard to tell how fast he will break a certain level. I think the developement can be rather unlinear and can have some long plateus some time.
      I agree, but when one is young and athletic, those issues are not the same. I think where you get to after 2 years if you are under 20 years old, adding another 200 pts over a lifetime is not unreasonable, especially below 2200. Some people add more, some add less. But if I was saying that oh, he will break 2400 for sure, then you would know that I was probably being stupid. After 2000, the curve gets harder and 2400 is pretty hard.

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    26. Top | #18
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      How to backhand loop a super spinny pendulum serve that comes long

      If I was missing the top quality commentary on technique from Archo, there always seems to be someone with enough of a lack of self awareness to fill his shoes.

      But it is also nice to see some sane commentary on how good OP actually is.

      Those serves do look fairly evil. “What I would do against them is....get owned.”


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      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 02-25-2019 at 04:54 PM.
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    28. Top | #19
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      Try learning on how to read the serves more first.

    29. Top | #20
      NextLevel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lula View Post
      I like his hairstyle, i had the same thing when i was around 15. He must be a pretty funny dude i think when he have his hair that way as an adult haha

      Found it somewhat strange that this guy do not know how to return a sidespin serve. Feel like the other strokes looks pretty okay so he should be able to know how to return a sidespin serve. But everyone have different strengths.

      I think it is hard to tell how fast he will break a certain level. I think the developement can be rather unlinear and can have some long plateus some time.
      He really isn't talking about returning it he is talking about being able to kill it the way he probably can if it comes to his forehand. Many players with good forehand and not so good or less confident even if good backhand often just want their backhand to be like their forehand and you have to get them to appreciate that backhand play is a different flavor of table tennis.

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