Forced away from the table

Ah, a problem so many of us have!

I think it’s worth starting off by saying that I wouldn’t be too worried if he’s loosing to better players.

But, more often than not, the weaker player will try and simply stay in the game, by whatever means necessary. This usually involves going back from the table and attempting to get an many balls back as they can - Hopeing the other player will eventually miss.

I’ve been guilty of this for most of my career, but recently I’ve flipped that approach on its head, and it’s been working well.

Ultimately, it’s a mindset thing. The next time he plays someone better, who you think will force him away from the table, tell your son that it doesn’t matter if he wins the match, or if he loses 3-0 in a flash, but he needs to stay closer to the table and attack.

It’s generally a combination of people’s fear of losing, and their lack of confidence in the attacking game that drives them away from the table.

If he can overcome these things, he’ll more than likely give it a good shot.

It’s worth bearing in mind that this approach will likely yield some bad loses (score wise), but does it really matter if you lose 3-0 through attacking, or 3-2 by simply trying to stay in the point, but never really look like winning?

After a while, he’ll become much better at it, and his results will improve.

Short term pain for long term gain!

I do not think he will much far away from the table. I he is blocking, he proably needs to block better if he is moved away from the table. More variation, better placement and also a little more aggressive so the opponent can not move him away from the table.
Another option, proably the best if he is better at attacking, is to try to get the opening loop by serving and returning short, and then try to keep the advantage in the ball.

Maybe he can train more with a barrier behind him.

I also think it is a wrong approach to focus to much on winning and loosing at his age. Especially from the parent. I think that will limit his developement. Better to focus at develpoing the stroke and his game and he will win in the long run.

When he is making a training match put a chair (or one of those TT barriers) behind him so he cannot step away from the table. He will take good habits

CluelessTTDad said:

Thanks guys... some interesting points...

Firstly, there is no pressure on him winning, apart from the pressure he puts on himself... it's hard to convince a kid of this age that winning doesn't really matter !

All his training is close to the table, in fact when he trains in the house with a robot he has very little space behind him to be forced in to.

He also has a good attacking game, he always tries to initiate the attack by either flicking or looping against backspin... but thinking about it, it may well be in situations where these flicks or loops are less than perfect that the opponent can counter-attack and push him away ?

He very rarely pushes... this could be a problem as well ?

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I wouldn't encourage the pushing game because his flicks aren't perfect.

I'd encourage to keep using the flick, even if it's not perfect and the opponent can get in and counter - Again, short term pain for long term gain.

But it really is a mental thing - He clearly trains close to the table at all times, so the only thing I can think of is his desire to just stay in the points is forcing him away.

Once he can overcome this fear of losing, you'll find he'll stay closer and just keep attacking.

CluelessTTDad said:

Thanks guys... some interesting points...

Firstly, there is no pressure on him winning, apart from the pressure he puts on himself... it's hard to convince a kid of this age that winning doesn't really matter !

All his training is close to the table, in fact when he trains in the house with a robot he has very little space behind him to be forced in to.

He also has a good attacking game, he always tries to initiate the attack by either flicking or looping against backspin... but thinking about it, it may well be in situations where these flicks or loops are less than perfect that the opponent can counter-attack and push him away ?

He very rarely pushes... this could be a problem as well ?

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Being able to throw both variations at opponents certainly helps. Does he have good control/placement with the flick or loop? I can never tell if people are teeing off on my opening loops because of my placement or because of my lack of power. Most likely both. But it may help your son to learn to place his opening loops more toward his opponent's middle, or far to one wing if they try to cheat over and leave a big distance to cover.

If it doesn't matter where he puts the ball, then it may be good for him to learn a really spinny push and wait to attack until he gets a ball he can be very aggressive on. But only with opponents that tee off in weaker openers.

I think push is a important part of the game and have to be improved. Sometimes a push can be a lot more disruptive than a flick.

You could see at pros with a powerful flick like fan zhendong and Calderano developed latter a better push game.

Sent from my MI 6X using Tapatalk

yuri.saldon said:

I think push is a important part of the game and have to be improved. Sometimes a push can be a lot more disruptive than a flick.

You could see at pros with a powerful flick like fan zhendong and Calderano developed latter a better push game.

Sent from my MI 6X using Tapatalk

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100% with you on that.

But if an 11 year old kid starts relying on the push rather than the flick, they'll end up under pressure more often than not, as the opponent will instigate the flick.

So my advice would be.

Learn the flick and learn it well.

Learn the push and learn it well.

Learn when to push and when to flick - This only comes from a ton of experience.

You should explain the context more, your question is really really open to interpretation.

I'm assuming your son's playing someone who can block his drives and force him back (playing at angles or with fast pace). I'll have to guess his playing style too. The easiest thing to try/learn is for him to increase the spin and improve the placement of his shots. It doesn't matter if the shot isn't as fast.

A slow/medium-pace spinny loop can put a lot of pressure on the opponent if they don't like heavy spin; or they expect a fast drive. Another advantage is, it gives more time for your son to prepare for the next shot (time that he probably lacks if he fully commits to a kill shot right at the table).

To block a fast shot, sometimes you only need good reflexes. To block a spinny shot, or better yet a variety of shots, you've gotta be able to read the spin, you need control and some footwork. It's tougher. So you can use the variation in speed, spin and power in your shot to force more mistakes from the blocker.

In general if the pace is going too fast for you, you have to actively work on reducing it. Feed the opponent slower yet high-quality shots, either spinny or float depending on the situation. You want to either create an opportunity for a kill shot, or force the opponent into doing the mistake.

(Other options for him:
- Do more of the same but change the placement. He's been opening 50 times in a row to the opponent's backhand, that's predictable. How about the elbow or the forehand?
- Work on his footwork so that he can play fast-fast-fast at the table. I see that "machine-gun" style more from promising girls, see for instance Dan vs Anna Hursley. But they rarely fully commit / lose their shape for a shot, sometimes even for the kill shot.)

Most often a weaker player is forced to step back because he feels unsure in his speed of reaction.
Its good to start with blocking near the table progressively accelerating the speed and when confident with that to excercise other hitting techniques at close distance.

CluelessTTDad said:

Thanks guys... some interesting points...

Firstly, there is no pressure on him winning, apart from the pressure he puts on himself... it's hard to convince a kid of this age that winning doesn't really matter !

All his training is close to the table, in fact when he trains in the house with a robot he has very little space behind him to be forced in to.

He also has a good attacking game, he always tries to initiate the attack by either flicking or looping against backspin... but thinking about it, it may well be in situations where these flicks or loops are less than perfect that the opponent can counter-attack and push him away ?

He very rarely pushes... this could be a problem as well ?

Click to expand...

I have a hard time Seeing that the level of your son and his opponents is so high that they can counterloop well against his opening loops all the time. As long as he vary the placement it Will work fine.

I think that Maybe it is better to push back at this level If he can not Do a good and safe flick or opening loop. Atleast if he wants to win the match.

It May also be good to vary a little more so he Do not Do the same thing all the time.

I also agree that a good push can be both faster and better than a flick.

I Do bot his level require this much thinking and i Do not think he is able to think so much about this during a match. But Maybe i an wrong. I think it is more important that he just try to stay close to the table.

Maybe you can post a video of hin playing if that feels okay with you. Many 11 years old level is pretty Low i think But Maybe your kis is very good. Hard for us to know which level We should out this on.

I still find it difficult to know his level. Do not know how good you need to be that in your country.

But i totally understand if you Do not want to post a video of him playing.

I think the off the table counter looping vs stronger players is beneficial for his development, will make him stronger in the long run.

If he is playing better opponents it's only natural he will step back a little more because some of his shots that were usually winners are now coming back. He's not used to that so he has to make time to take the next shot, and the only way to do that is by creating space. Like NDH said, it's all about the mindset. He will have to be more aggressive and stay close to the table, playing at a higher pace, even if in the beginning it will cost him some games.

CluelessTTDad said:

This sounds about spot on to me... I kind of think he's like a flat-track-bully, fine when he can hammer it past kids but lacking ideas when that doesn't work... that's what I was looking for... ideas he can work on.

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When i find myself in that position i think creating angles and increasing spin are my best options. Some basic tactics like a short serve to the FH followed by a opener to the wide BH. Or a short serve to the middle, spiny opener to the elbow followed by a wide shot. Anything that gets the opponent moving not only side to side but also back and forth. Varying his receive is also good. If he likes to flick, fine, but sometimes he can make a deep push to the FH side if the opponent is ready to step around the BH, for example.