Feedback on my FH & BH Loop

The very general rule is that the length of the swing depends on the distance from the table - short swing over the table, long swing on long distance. But its really only very general.
The length of the swing may depend on at what height you take the ball, its trajectory phase, return spin/speed ratio, desired arc, type of contact - more hit, or more carry, type of reaction to the incomming spin and direction - reverse the spin or accelerate it and needed drive to change the direction. And all these depending on personal style.

But its true that for the purpose of the particular excercise you don't need so long swing. With such a long swing you mess the temp of the stroke and you can see how you lift your elbow up in attempt to correct the trajectory. For this particular excercise you need shorter swing with more work of the lower arm. To excercise longer swing like that you need longer distance and taking the ball lower.
 
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There's a lot of talk about shortening strokes, but very little on how to actually acomplish a shorter stroke.

My technique was built around 1980. I won't even mention serving, which the rule changes turned from strength to a constant struggle, but at that time we had compact over-the-table countering (and the early onset of over-the-table counterspinning), short and fierce. The main bread&butter of FH and BH topspin had a rather long backswing and followthrough, however. Think Šurbek. Or even Persson, a bit later on.

Being young at the time I just did, engrained the flow and didn't theorize much then; but I believe the reason behind the long stroke was to get a predicable, linear movement (i.e. a circular movement on a level plane). Wrist action was not encouraged, quite contrary, it was frowned upon; this was believed to cause stroke unpredictability and hence inconsistency.

Flash forward to the now. Many things have changed. I can grasp the concepts of shorter explosive movement just fine, including wrist snap; but it's very, very hard, to name but one specific example, to break out of the habit of backswinging. I struggle with this on bananaflicks when pressured, and can't get it out of my system.

So if anybody actually could provide a few pointers towards a good way of shortening strokes, that would help. Merely saying they should be shortened doesn't, really.
 
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There's a lot of talk about shortening strokes, but very little on how to actually acomplish a shorter stroke.

My technique was built around 1980. I won't even mention serving, which the rule changes turned from strength to a constant struggle, but at that time we had compact over-the-table countering (and the early onset of over-the-table counterspinning), short and fierce. The main bread&butter of FH and BH topspin had a rather long backswing and followthrough, however. Think Šurbek. Or even Persson, a bit later on.

Being young at the time I just did, engrained the flow and didn't theorize much then; but I believe the reason behind the long stroke was to get a predicable, linear movement (i.e. a circular movement on a level plane). Wrist action was not encouraged, quite contrary, it was frowned upon; this was believed to cause stroke unpredictability and hence inconsistency.

Flash forward to the now. Many things have changed. I can grasp the concepts of shorter explosive movement just fine, including wrist snap; but it's very, very hard, to name but one specific example, to break out of the habit of backswinging. I struggle with this on bananaflicks when pressured, and can't get it out of my system.

So if anybody actually could provide a few pointers towards a good way of shortening strokes, that would help. Merely saying they should be shortened doesn't, really.

I think you can have longer strokes as long as they are still explosive and with good acceleration. You also need to be able to recover. But it is interesting to think if you are faster if you have a relaxed stroke with a longer followthrough or if you are faster when you need to stop and tense to do a shorter stroke. Does it takes longer time to be relaxed again on the short stroke or to recover with the longer stroke? Something in the middle is proably the best.

I also think it depends how close you are to the table as someone said. No time to use to long of a strokes close to the table. Difficult to not use the wrist on the backhand close to the table, just forearm takes so long time.

I think to much backswing is a big no no. Makes timing harder and takes more time. Maybe okay at easier balls.

I think you can try to do random drills, maybe as hard as backhand block and you loop from the whole table. Or other random drills or drills with high tempo, where you do not have the time to use backswing and to long of a strokes. It is proably also important to have the racket high against topspin and not drop it, you will win alot of time there.

Maybe you can post a video. Would be interesting to see how it looks at the moment.
 
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Trying to hit loosely, fully relaxed, is my main focus right now. My approach towards that is indirect; I've found that going directly towards a goal, keeping laser focus on it, doesn't help keeping things relaxed. So my indirect approach is to focus on breathing in and out while powering an explosive whip legs-up and loosely.

That leads to a long stroke, but when fully relaxed recovery isn't bad. ++1 for keeping the blade up, that helps somehow in fighting exaggerated backswings. One other thing I'm trying to change my habits in is in swing start height; sometimes I start too low and have to correct mid-swing, thus breaking out of the swing plane and making it less loose, less exposive, less powerful and more error-prone. These things I already work on, with some (slow) progress, I think, and as you say typically spinning randomly placed blocks back to a fixed spot on the table. One other thing I'm working on is getting a good contact when brushing over sidespin serves; grabbing the ball deeply can be hard, sometimes I even fail to make contact if I step out to aggressively open a long sidespin serve placed into the body.

I'll try to find a camera and a tripod someday, it's always good to have footage, and to overcome the embarrassment that self awareness carries with it.
 
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Try holding the racket loosely, then the arm Will be that aswell.

If you have to change the stroke midswing i think you still have to much backswing. Search in the ball first and almost have it by your racket before you start your stroke.

Filming is good. Many Times you know What to Do But not how it actually looks. I should film myself more.
 
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Found some 2+ years old footage at https://vimeo.com/223040059. That was when I just started playing again and while recovering from injury, I'd like to think I'm hitting quite a bit better now. Still, the long stroke (which also makes me move away from the table too much) and the midswing corrections are clearly visible, and I'm certainly having remnants of both, lesser pronounced.

(In this session I was focussing on variations in placement, depth, spin and speed. Too much going on at the same time, I now think.)
 
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Try holding the racket loosely, then the arm Will be that aswell.
Loosely is fine, but would you make the grip firmer at point of contact og keep it loose through the whole swing?

Actually it would be great to see a video on how to shorten the stroke. I have this issue myself, I do know that it is partly due too much sideways weight transfer instead of forward and sometimes not having a good enough acceleration at the point of contact. Usually all the faults are exposed when playing against a defensive player :p
 
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How long have you been playing for, BryanY?

Two years. I do some coaching when I can (10 month baby at home, so not as much free time). I’ve also been playing in a club league once a week. (In addition I play some friendly doubles matches at the office).


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Two years. I do some coaching when I can (10 month baby at home, so not as much free time). I’ve also been playing in a club league once a week. (In addition I play some friendly doubles matches at the office).


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You seem to be doing extremely well for an adult who has played only two years. I don't think that there are any game changing flaws in your technique to be honest. That you do a semi-cross/split step when hitting the forehand in practice is pretty impressive. On the backhand vs backspin, you could bow a little more to give you swing lead space but I suspect for most of the people you currently play, what you do will be far more than sufficient.

Congrats on the hard work, it is not easy to play that way learning later in life.
 
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You seem to be doing extremely well for an adult who has played only two years. I don't think that there are any game changing flaws in your technique to be honest. That you do a semi-cross/split step when hitting the forehand in practice is pretty impressive. On the backhand vs backspin, you could bow a little more to give you swing lead space but I suspect for most of the people you currently play, what you do will be far more than sufficient.

Congrats on the hard work, it is not easy to play that way learning later in life.

Thanks! I’ve tried to make the most of my training and match time to focus on technique. I’m 37 now. I definitely wish I picked up the sport at a younger age, but I’m having a great time with it right now.


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Loosely is fine, but would you make the grip firmer at point of contact og keep it loose through the whole swing?

Actually it would be great to see a video on how to shorten the stroke. I have this issue myself, I do know that it is partly due too much sideways weight transfer instead of forward and sometimes not having a good enough acceleration at the point of contact. Usually all the faults are exposed when playing against a defensive player :p

There was one time where a second coach stood directly in back of me and tapped my paddle every time I swung back to back to far. Kinda tough to get two coaches involved, but it was very helpful.


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The funny thing is that Bryan's stroke is pretty short, the arm position is driven by the rotation of the hips not by the arm being pulled back (which is what I do and which makes my stroke pretty long). It's just a different technique and you can get something similar with a bent arm.

You can also do a long stroke with your arm still in front of you, just wave it. Hip rotation is always fast.
 
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