2019 Asian Cup April 5-7

zeio · Apr 5, 2019

https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/201904050001083.html

五輪金メダリストはわずかな隙すら見逃さなかった。第1ゲーム、張本が4連続得点で8－9と追い上げた場面。「五輪王者は少しのサーブの長さも見極める」と、わずかに甘く入ったボールを馬竜はためをつくって、張本の逆に打ち抜いた。「1ゲーム目だからしょうがないと思っていたが、やはりあそこを取れば大きかった」と悔やんだ。

昨年6月のジャパンオープンでは4－2で勝利も「昨年の敗因を分析してきたと思う。今日は全ての面で相手が上だった」と完敗を認めた。20年東京五輪で金メダルを目指す張本は「馬竜選手は弱点がない。甘い球は1つでも仕留められるというプレッシャーがある。自分もそういう選手になりたい」と目標に掲げた。

昨年は準々決勝で敗れ5位。今回決勝に行けば馬竜と再戦できるが「そこまで行ければ修正して勝ちたい」と意気込んだ。

Harimoto said "ML guessed right on the length of a few serves in game 1, that it would've been a different match had he taken that game." "ML must've analyzed the loss at Japan Open last June, and had the upper hand on all fronts." "ML doesn't have any weakness. He presses on at every chance he gets. I want to become a player like him." On the fact that he still has the chance to meet ML in the final, "I want to patch it up and win if I could get there."

usualsuspect · Apr 5, 2019

Ioiettino said:
On the other hand I don't think I've ever seen so many winners down the line against Ma Long's forehand, which felt like an actual weakness and downright weird; Ma Long and tactical weaknesses don't often go hand in hand. I guess he was willing to take risks and find himself exposed rather than step away from the table and play into HT's off the bounce counters.

Just a quick analysis and may be completely off the mark, of course.

Don't go with feelings, go with numbers. Harimoto got 4 points with BH parallel shots in the entire match. ML wised up to it and countered some of them in later sets.

ML's whole strategy revolves around pinning HT on BH corner and then go for wide angle FH shots. Like you said, ML's variation in service and BH loops kept the effectiveness of HT's BH in check. HT's relatively weak FH is exploited.

Kudos to HT for realizing that flat hits and blocks with his FH is not working out. In later sets, HT started counterlooping with FH against ML, with some success, but ML's FH is still too strong.

To effectively execute his strategy, ML has to stay in his BH corner, so losing 4 point from HT's BH parallel shots is an acceptable trade.

zeio · Apr 5, 2019

https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/201904050001091.html

石川佳純は2勝1敗で8強入りを決めた。第2試合の世界ランク10位フォン・ティエンウェイ（シンガポール）戦に0－3で敗れた後、約1時間の「緊急会議」を開いた。「馬場監督、母たちと戦い方について話し合った。普通、大会中に1時間はないですね」。

After Ishikawa's straight-game defeat to FTW, the JNT held an "emergency meeting" for an hour, where "director Baba and Ishikawa's mom brainstormed. Usually, you won't get an hour in a tournament."

drunix80 · Apr 5, 2019

zeio said:
https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/201904050001083.html

Harimoto said "ML guessed right on the length of a few serves in game 1, that it would've been a different match had he taken that game." "ML must've analyzed the loss at Japan Open last June, and had the upper hand on all fronts." "ML doesn't have any weakness. He presses on at every chance he gets. I want to become a player like him." On the fact that he still has the chance to meet ML in the final, "I want to patch it up and win if I could get there."

Remains to be seem how FZD will handle ML now if both of them meet in the semis.

zeio · Apr 5, 2019

FZD and ML won't meet until the final, so Harimoto will have to get past FZD in the SF first.

drunix80 · Apr 5, 2019

zeio said:
FZD and ML won't meet until the final, so Harimoto will have to get past FZD in the SF first.

Then FZD vs Harimoto would turn out to be a stern test for FZD since he too lost his last match against Harimoto in last Asian Cup. I remember many speculated he lost on purpose for setting up an all CNT final.

NextLevel · Apr 5, 2019

usualsuspect said:
Don't go with feelings, go with numbers. Harimoto got 4 points with BH parallel shots in the entire match. ML wised up to it and countered some of them in later sets.

ML's whole strategy revolves around pinning HT on BH corner and then go for wide angle FH shots. Like you said, ML's variation in service and BH loops kept the effectiveness of HT's BH in check. HT's relatively weak FH is exploited.

Kudos to HT for realizing that flat hits and blocks with his FH is not working out. In later sets, HT started counterlooping with FH against ML, with some success, but ML's FH is still too strong.

To effectively execute his strategy, ML has to stay in his BH corner, so losing 4 point from HT's BH parallel shots is an acceptable trade.

"Relatively weak forehand", "flat hits"... you do realize that this is a 15/16 year old playing against men and he is weaker from a power perspective on all fronts if he plays a consistency rally as opposed to a placement and speed game?

Sali · Apr 5, 2019

zeio said:
https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/201904050001091.html

After Ishikawa's straight-game defeat to FTW, the JNT held an "emergency meeting" for an hour, where "director Baba and Ishikawa's mom brainstormed. Usually, you won't get an hour in a tournament."

They should talk more about hirano who cannot pick up her form and looses to much lower ranked opponents. How long others are going to say she is still young - next 5 years?
If there is nobody better that is fine, but they have some also very young girlanda like hayata or kato who could develop much more if they have so many chances

Shifu · Apr 5, 2019

NextLevel said:
"Relatively weak forehand", "flat hits"... you do realize that this is a 15/16 year old playing against men and he is weaker from a power perspective on all fronts if he plays a consistency rally as opposed to a placement and speed game?

This. Where was Ma Long when he was 15?

Takkyu_wa_inochi · Apr 5, 2019

Harimoto is very respectful of other players. Even if he has surpassed him now, Harimoto's idol was Mizutani. He's now his teammate and training with him (in JNT and T-League).

I think he respects MA Long a lot as well, but he has the potential to surpass MA Long as well

drunix80 · Apr 5, 2019

usualsuspect said:
Don't go with feelings, go with numbers. Harimoto got 4 points with BH parallel shots in the entire match. ML wised up to it and countered some of them in later sets.

ML's whole strategy revolves around pinning HT on BH corner and then go for wide angle FH shots. Like you said, ML's variation in service and BH loops kept the effectiveness of HT's BH in check. HT's relatively weak FH is exploited.

Kudos to HT for realizing that flat hits and blocks with his FH is not working out. In later sets, HT started counterlooping with FH against ML, with some success, but ML's FH is still too strong.

To effectively execute his strategy, ML has to stay in his BH corner, so losing 4 point from HT's BH parallel shots is an acceptable trade.

If weaker relative to his forehand, then I guess it is fine. But if relative to other players then I would say we need to revisit last year's Japan Open vs ML where he won many FH-FH encounters. I have seen Harimoto play live last year at KOR open and he was packing so much punch with his FH topspin. But, ofcourse, he has to put so much extra effort to get the power because he is after all 15. Just because Harimoto does not do off the table counter topspins , does not make his FH weak. And I believe flat hits are a great way to get out of trouble. It does not signify any big weakness of anything as such.

usualsuspect · Apr 5, 2019

Fabian said:
This. Where was Ma Long when he was 15?

I think 15 year old ML's FH was already better than HT's FH. Remember, ML's BH was his weakness for most of his career. I would argue HT's BH is better than ML's BH.
HT has potential to surpass ML as a player, but his FH is not likely to surpass ML's FH. They have completely different styles.
My comment wasn't meant to insult HT, it was only objective analysis.
Btw, HT is participating in an adult competition, therefore I'm treating him as an adult player. To treat him otherwise would be a much worse insult to him.

dchow1992 · Apr 5, 2019

Perhaps we wouldn't have even seen HT yet if he was a 15 year old playing in china instead of japan

Shifu · Apr 5, 2019

usualsuspect said:
I think 15 year old ML's FH was already better than HT's FH. Remember, ML's BH was his weakness for most of his career. I would argue HT's BH is better than ML's BH.
HT has potential to surpass ML as a player, but his FH is not likely to surpass ML's FH. They have completely different styles.
My comment wasn't meant to insult HT, it was only objective analysis.
Btw, HT is participating in an adult competition, therefore I'm treating him as an adult player. To treat him otherwise would be a much worse insult to him.

Ma Long played his first senior tournament in 2005 in Qatar where he was at least one year older than Harimoto is now.

edit: deep link to ITTF results does not work

Back then celluloid was used which was a lot less demanding regarding physical strength. Additionally he didn't have the results Harimoto already had. Give Harimoto 2 more years...

Vlad Celler · Apr 5, 2019

HAMAMOTO Yui ^^

AUT

Is she no longer a Japanese athlete?

NextLevel · Apr 5, 2019

Not to derail this thread in the absence of matches but here is Ma Long at 14. For Harimoto at 14, watch T2.

https://youtu.be/99tgBH1n4Nc

People watching Harimoto often confuse technique with age.

zeio · Apr 5, 2019

Vlad Celler said:
HAMAMOTO Yui ^^
AUT

Is she no longer a Japanese athlete?

That's new. Can't find anything. Could it be Liu Yanjun of Austria? He happens to be the coach of the T League team Kinoshita she is on. She mentioned him in a recent Butterfly interview.

zeio · Apr 5, 2019

NextLevel said:
Not to derail this thread in the absence of matches but here is Ma Long at 14. For Harimoto at 14, watch T2.

https://youtu.be/99tgBH1n4Nc

People watching Harimoto often confuse technique with age.

Can someone get in touch with Pistej for a comment?

zeio · Apr 5, 2019

ML was 14 years and 7 months old in that match with Pistej in Mar, 2003.

Harimoto was 13 years and 11 months old in his match with Pistej on Jun 3, 2017.

RidTheKid · Apr 5, 2019

Yes but we have to analyze todays HT, not the HT 5 years from now who we know nothing about.

NextLevel said:
"Relatively weak forehand", "flat hits"... you do realize that this is a 15/16 year old playing against men and he is weaker from a power perspective on all fronts if he plays a consistency rally as opposed to a placement and speed game?

2019 Asian Cup April 5-7

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