2019 Asian Cup April 5-7

Shifu · Apr 5, 2019

NextLevel said:
Not to derail this thread in the absence of matches but here is Ma Long at 14. For Harimoto at 14, watch T2.

https://youtu.be/99tgBH1n4Nc

People watching Harimoto often confuse technique with age.

technic will still change, especially if he has more power he will do other shots. but it won't change as much ofc as his strength

NextLevel · Apr 5, 2019

RidTheKid said:
Yes but we have to analyze todays HT, not the HT 5 years from now who we know nothing about.

Well we have the Ma Long from yesterday. Is his forehand as good as Harimoto's at the same age?

To be honest , I didn't want to get into it, but the analysis of the matchup is wrong. Ma Long is just significantly more powerful than Harimoto is so Harimoto has to make up for the deficit elsewhere. It is not a technique thing it is a power thing. So if Harimoto is not getting significant advantages early, he will be at a deficit in most of the rallies on bot forehand and backhand so his ability to change directions is key. Making it a technical issue misses the point. Harimoto also has a relatively weak backhand it is his close to the table speed that gives him an advantage in using it. But Ma Long is not a slow player so he needs more than that.

RidTheKid · Apr 5, 2019

You are correct. But should we give leeway, make exceptions and excuses for HT because of his age? He's competing against players of equal skill level. His age is the explanation for his lack of power on the fh, but it's not his opponents fault that HT is so insanely talented that he has to compete against grown men. I don't think it's fair to devalue his opponents skills when HT is the one who's just so much before his time in so many areas. About the fh. Ma Long is a complete player nowadays but his natural instinct with his fh is something you just can't teach, same as HT's bh, the fluidity is just there. It's talent.

NextLevel said:
Well we have the Ma Long from yesterday. Is his forehand as good as Harimoto's at the same age?

To be honest , I didn't want to get into it, but the analysis of the matchup is wrong. Ma Long is just significantly more powerful than Harimoto is so Harimoto has to make up for the deficit elsewhere. It is not a technique thing it is a power thing. So if Harimoto is not getting significant advantages early, he will be at a deficit in most of the rallies on bot forehand and backhand so his ability to change directions is key. Making it a technical issue misses the point. Harimoto also has a relatively weak backhand it is his close to the table speed that gives him an advantage in using it. But Ma Long is not a slow player so he needs more than that.

Takkyu_wa_inochi · Apr 5, 2019

a little bit off-topic

@Vlad Celler regarding your question

Yui HAMAMOTO's results are not good enough for her to be in the main JNT. I think she was still in the WTTC trials and kicked out in Round 1. She's a regular player in T-League in Kinoshita Tokyo along Kasumi ISHIKAWA and actually had ok results reflecting her current ranking. When she was in JNT, she had excellent results in ITTF U21 competitions, but she didn't make it on the big stage , or at least underperformed expectations alas.

But it doesn't matter, she's still the cutest player in Japan, but she sounds a bit dumb. Miyu MAEDA is cute as well, perhaps not as good as HAMAMOTO (but close), but she seems to be much more mature

NextLevel · Apr 5, 2019

RidTheKid said:
You are correct. But should we give leeway, make exceptions and excuses for HT because of his age? He's competing against players of equal skill level. His age is the explanation for his lack of power on the fh, but it's not his opponents fault that HT is so insanely talented that he has to compete against grown men. I don't think it's fair to devalue his opponents skills when HT is the one who's just so much before his time in so many areas. About the fh. Ma Long is a complete player nowadays but his natural instinct with his fh is something you just can't teach, same as HT's bh, the fluidity is just there. It's talent.

Look at the video when Ma Long was 14. Where was the talent?

Harimoto has a very powerful forehand, especially so for his age. Nothing to be ashamed of. But even on the backhand side Ma Long was overpowering him. Harimoto redirects and plays faster. But saying that Harimoto should be looping or something like that is just weird. No one holds the table like Harimoto does looping every ball. And once he backs up, the power and speed which are his advantages go away.

But if you think it is a technical issue and that Harimoto has a better backhand and weaker forehand (as opposed to the idea that Harimoto can play his style better on the backhand side than the forehand side because of power, speed and stroke size), that is the usual perspective and since it is common, I am trying to show another one.

usualsuspect · Apr 5, 2019

Fabian said:
Back then celluloid was used which was a lot less demanding regarding physical strength. Additionally he didn't have the results Harimoto already had. Give Harimoto 2 more years...

Hey, we can give Harimoto 5 more years, his FH isn't likely to ever get to ML's level. Just look at Mizutani, he's been around forever and hasn't fixed his FH technique. I don't think a player can change his FH technique once he's settled on a style. Harimoto's FH technique is marginally better than Mizutani's, but nowhere near the textbook standard of ML and FZD. How can you surpass someone when you technique is fundamentally more flawed?
I'm not saying HT won't surpass ML as a player, just his FH won't.

NextLevel · Apr 5, 2019

usualsuspect said:
Hey, we can give Harimoto 5 more years, his FH isn't likely to ever get to ML's level. Just look at Mizutani, he's been around forever and hasn't fixed his FH technique. I don't think a player can change his FH technique once he's settled on a style. Harimoto's FH technique is marginally better than Mizutani's, but nowhere near the textbook standard of ML and FZD. How can you surpass someone when you technique is fundamentally more flawed?
I'm not saying HT won't surpass ML as a player, just his FH won't.

I think it Harimoto actually does much more with his forehand than he should because of the pressure to play vs. older players. What that means for his long term growth is not clear but the idea that his stroke is similar to Mizutani is ridiculous and is why I bring this up.

https://youtu.be/QNDOCm7g6ck?t=549

I suspect the real issue is that Butterfly will pay him too much to use boosted Hurricane.

mrk · Apr 5, 2019

Because Harimoto (as a Japanese) is not part of the chinese national team he can't play a lot against the likes of Ma Long or Fan Zhendong. I hope he wins against Sangsu and plays against Fan Zhendong. He needs much more games against these players.

Loopadoop · Apr 5, 2019

As a kid, Harimoto is going to be streaky since he is still developing, which is kind of scary if your his opponents.

Takkyu_wa_inochi · Apr 6, 2019

I think NL is right with his arguments

Time will tell but I think Harimoto will try to find solutions within his style first. If he doesn’t have the skills today to get Ma Long or FZD yet he has still time to get even better

zeio · Apr 6, 2019

The venue is packed.

Loopadoop · Apr 6, 2019

Is Adham Sharara responsible for the ITTF live stream for the Asian Cup ?

zeio · Apr 6, 2019

Nope, so refreshing.

Ishikawa self-detonated on her serve at 9:10. LOL!!!

I can tell the ump for this match also umpires badminton matches.

zeio · Apr 6, 2019

For those who can't get the stream to work.

Live on CCTV 5+ now.

Janard · Apr 6, 2019

A little random here but it seems Feng Tianwei is on a roll this tournament? 3-0 Ishikawa and now 4-0 Jeon. Maybe she will beat ZYL in the SF? Would be nice to see Hirano emerge victorious during the QF match with ZYL but, hmm.

zeio · Apr 6, 2019

CIC has withdrawn due to injury. CM waiting in F.

Nemo · Apr 6, 2019

Both Japanese win their QF matches 4-1 and both Chinese win their QF matches 4-1, too (speaking about men's).

Semi-finals will be FZD-TH and ML-KN
Match ups couldn't be more exciting in my opinion! Really looking forward to the matches

zeio · Apr 6, 2019

ZYL vs Hirano
5:0, 5:7, 6:7, 6:10, 9:10, Hirano's TO, 9:11. Hirano finally knows when to slow down this time.

6:2, 8:7, ZYL's TO, 11:7. This Hirano feels like the one from 2016. She doesn't force every shot now.

Sali · Apr 6, 2019

interesting first set hirano vs zhu - they are both very nervous.
Zhu was leading 5:0
then Hirano took 7 points in a row
Zhu 1 point to 6:7
Hirano next 3 poins to have 10:6
Zhu came back with 3 direct points
With 10:9 hirano took time out (i think unnecesary) but she got lucky with the edge.

drunix80 · Apr 6, 2019

Nemo said:
Both Japanese win their QF matches 4-1 and both Chinese win their QF matches 4-1, too (speaking about men's).

Semi-finals will be FZD-TH and ML-KN
Match ups couldn't be more exciting in my opinion! Really looking forward to the matches

ML vs KN is no brainer to predict. FZD vs TH will be quite interesting. Not sure which way it will go.

2019 Asian Cup April 5-7

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