Japan Women's Race to Tokyo 2020 Singles

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This is a reply to Nemo's post in the Australian Open 2019 thread regarding M. Yoshimura's chances to make the Olympics. I decided to post here as to not derail the Australian Open 2019 thread and since the team composition for the Japan Men's Team will affect who is selected for the Women's Team anyway due to the new mixed doubles event.

I think Yoshimura's chance to make the Olympic Team is also dependent on how much importance JTTA gives to team seeding. Right now, the Japan's Men's team is seeded 2nd with Germany seeded at 3rd. However, ITTF usually seeds team events based on the WR of the top 3 entered players of the team. This means that Yoshimura's low WR will pull down Japan's seeding from 2nd seed to 3rd or 4[SUP]th[/SUP] seed during the Olympics. I can explain the intricacies of world team ranking if you want, but long story short: if Japan with Harimoto, Yoshimura, and Niwa or Mizutani plays against Germany with Boll, Dima, and Franziska in a virtual computer simulated match, the computer will predict Germany to win based on the world ranking of the top 3 players fielded by each team, so Germany would be seeded higher than Japan.

This was the reason why the Japan Women's Team was seeded 1st in the World Team Cup last year while the Chinese Women's team was seeded 2nd despite China's team ranking being World No. 1. During that tournament, China left out then World No. 1 Chen Meng from the team. China's top 3 players based on WR were Zhu Yuling, Chen Xingtong and Wang Manyu (Ding Ning and Liu Shiwen were ranked low due to lack of participation). Because of this, the computer predicted that Japan would beat China in a virtual match due to the higher WR of Japan's top 3 players of Ishikawa, Ito and Hirano, so Japan was seeded 1.

If Japan wants to avoid China till the the final, being seeded 2nd and sending Harimoto, Niwa and Mizutani is the only way to guarantee this. If Japan is seeded 3rd or 4th, there's a 50% chance they meet China in the SF. Of course, seeding is meaningless if the players selected don't deliver, but I'm sure JTTA is still considering this scenario when selecting the team.

Right now, the biggest non-Chinese threat to the Japan Men's Team is Germany. The doubles pairing of Boll/Franziska is one of the best doubles pairings right now and I think if Japan faces Germany, Germany will most likely win doubles whether or not Yoshimura is selected. This means that Japan needs to win 3 of 4 singles matches. Does Japan just sacrifice doubles and strengthen their chances to win 3 of 4 singles matches, or will they try to win the doubles match while weakening their singles despite still being the underdog in doubles against Boll/Franziska? These are tough decisions JTTA must answer by Jan. 2020. Other dangerous teams for Japan include Korea, Sweden and Taiwan, all of which have strong doubles pairings and have singles players that can defeat the players of Japan.

In my opinion, JTTA should test Yoshimura/Niwa or Yoshimura/Mizutani pairings on the World Tour to see if these doubles combinations do significantly better than the other men’s doubles pairings they have tested. If these doubles pairings containing Yoshimura only do slightly better, then maybe it may not be worth the seeding drop and the weakening of singles level of the team. However, if Yoshimura pairs well with either Mizutani or Niwa, and especially if Yoshimura can have solid singles results, you can make the case of including Yoshimura on the team.

Maybe I should do a "Race to Tokyo 2020 Men's Singles edition." :) Right now, I'd say Niwa has the slight edge over Mizutani due to a better WTTC result and due to the fact that Niwa is playing the World Cup while Mizutani isn't.
 
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Has JNT ever tried teaming up Hayata and Yoshimura? They could nominate their two best mens and womans single players and would have one "double specialist" on each team.
 
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I think Yoshimura's chance to make the Olympic Team is also dependent on how much importance JTTA gives to team seeding. Right now, the Japan's Men's team is seeded 2nd with Germany seeded at 3rd. However, ITTF usually seeds team events based on the WR of the top 3 entered players of the team. This means that Yoshimura's low WR will pull down Japan's seeding from 2nd seed to 3rd or 4[SUP]th[/SUP] seed during the Olympics. I can explain the intricacies of world team ranking if you want, but long story short: if Japan with Harimoto, Yoshimura, and Niwa or Mizutani plays against Germany with Boll, Dima, and Franziska in a virtual computer simulated match, the computer will predict Germany to win based on the world ranking of the top 3 players fielded by each team, so Germany would be seeded higher than Japan.

If Japan wants to avoid China till the the final, being seeded 2nd and sending Harimoto, Niwa and Mizutani is the only way to guarantee this. If Japan is seeded 3rd or 4th, there's a 50% chance they meet China in the SF. Of course, seeding is meaningless if the players selected don't deliver, but I'm sure JTTA is still considering this scenario when selecting the team.

Right now, the biggest non-Chinese threat to the Japan Men's Team is Germany. The doubles pairing of Boll/Franziska is one of the best doubles pairings right now and I think if Japan faces Germany, Germany will most likely win doubles whether or not Yoshimura is selected. This means that Japan needs to win 3 of 4 singles matches. Does Japan just sacrifice doubles and strengthen their chances to win 3 of 4 singles matches, or will they try to win the doubles match while weakening their singles despite still being the underdog in doubles against Boll/Franziska? These are tough decisions JTTA must answer by Jan. 2020. Other dangerous teams for Japan include Korea, Sweden and Taiwan, all of which have strong doubles pairings and have singles players that can defeat the players of Japan.

In my opinion, JTTA should test Yoshimura/Niwa or Yoshimura/Mizutani pairings on the World Tour to see if these doubles combinations do significantly better than the other men’s doubles pairings they have tested. If these doubles pairings containing Yoshimura only do slightly better, then maybe it may not be worth the seeding drop and the weakening of singles level of the team. However, if Yoshimura pairs well with either Mizutani or Niwa, and especially if Yoshimura can have solid singles results, you can make the case of including Yoshimura on the team.

Maybe I should do a "Race to Tokyo 2020 Men's Singles edition." :) Right now, I'd say Niwa has the slight edge over Mizutani due to a better WTTC result and due to the fact that Niwa is playing the World Cup while Mizutani isn't.

There is just one thing to mention. It is still long time for the olympics, so if Yoshimura performs well, he can overcome franziska in world ranking by that time and if they choose harimoto and Mizutani/niwa it should be enough.
The other thing is how the others perform and how it will affect their ranking. Most of mentioned players are far from beeing in good shape and it makes the loose a lot.
Mizutani - last two tournaments did not get any points because he already lost in 1 round to non chinese player
Harimoto - same as Mizutani
Niwa - same as above.
If they continue like this all of them will drop in ranking.
While at the same time Timo performance is quite good and franziska as well. Dima is very unpredictable I haven't seen him playing top level since he was world no.1
So it means we have to just wait and mostly good performance will matters, speculation we can leave till the end.
 
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She has to win. She needs the points. Ishikawa and Hirano have the huge World Cup buffer. Now that Ishikawa will play in Malaysia, Ito needs to widen her lead as much as possible.
 
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She has to win. She needs the points. Ishikawa and Hirano have the huge World Cup buffer. Now that Ishikawa will play in Malaysia, Ito needs to widen her lead as much as possible.

Will the old points for the World Cup be updated?
 
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While Hirano would still have a 525 pt lead over Ishikawa exiting at r16, Ito just going even with Ishikawa to QF, thus having a lead of 965 pts is not enough to cover the World Cup shortfall. I really hope Ito can push onto the SF, for a 1305 pt lead. That would cover/equate to a QF finish in WC.
 
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Will the old points for the World Cup be updated?

The points from 2018 will get replaced, and so the point gap b/w 2018 and 2019 doesn't matter.

What matters is for the points gained in 2019, how much headroom Ito needs to secure, that is, the gap needed to account for the likely finishing positions in World Cup 2019 for Ishikawa and Hirano, and how many points are available for them to grab before the end of 2019.
 
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While Hirano would still have a 525 pt lead over Ishikawa exiting at r16, Ito just going even with Ishikawa to QF, thus having a lead of 965 pts is not enough to cover the World Cup shortfall. I really hope Ito can push onto the SF, for a 1305 pt lead.

The probability that Ishikawa will lose to Cheng Meng is very high ...:eek:



Ishikawa - 12468 + result in T-2 (400-1000)
C.I.C. - 11790 + result in T-2 (400-1000)
Hirano - 11650 + result in T-2 (400-1000)

Ito - it all depends on the results of the quarter finals and especially the semi-finals (if Ito reaches the semi-finals ...)
If she loses in QF - 11970 + result in T-2 (400-1000)
If she wins and enters the semifinal - 12310 + result in T-2 (400-1000)

(I must say that, despite the Asian Cup, Ito has some advantage over Ishikawa in August ....Deductions of old bonuses ....)
 
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ALL the 2018 pts (except the WTTC) means absolutely NOTHING, for deciding who gets the spots for singles in January 2020.
as for seeding Ishikawa will never have the shielding of a quarter again like before, now that CNT has locked up the top 6 positions, plus flooding the qualification with ‘sweepers’.
 
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Right. Forget the deductions. Seeding would hardly differ. Luck becomes a factor, now that China is actively "looking to sabotage" Japan's game plan. Things are getting dirty and ugly here.
 
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.... plus flooding the qualification with ‘sweepers’....:)

That's right ... All these old bonuses have some meaning only for calculating the current ITTF ratings for 2019, nothing more ....
 
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.... plus flooding the qualification with ‘sweepers’....:)

That's right ... All these old bonuses have some meaning only for calculating the current ITTF ratings for 2019, nothing more ....

True, but your calculations are much appreciated. What struck me from your computation is that Hirano is now within striking distance from Cheng I-Ching in terms of ranking points. Generally, being seeded 6[SUP]th[/SUP], 7[SUP]th[/SUP], or 8[SUP]th[/SUP] doesn’t really matter and won’t affect the draw. However, if Hirano overtakes Cheng I-Ching next month and becomes WR No. 8, it would be a big boost to her chances to make the singles event in Tokyo. She can basically avoid meeting Top Chinese Players or Ishikawa and Ito till the QF while if she stayed at WR No. 9, she faces them in the R16.

Still, this is all speculation as Sun Yingsha’s recent performances may help her break the top 8 before Hirano can. Let’s wait for the Australian Open and T2 Diamond results to see how things shake out. Even then, Hirano surpassing Cheng I-Ching in ranking, before the World Cup would guarantee her a Top 4 seed in that event, so that would be a short-term win in itself.

In other news, the T-League rosters are being finalized. It looks like Niwa, Mizutani and Harimoto are on the same team. While this may be overpowered, I think JTTA is more concerned on how these 3 work together in preparation for Tokyo 2020. M. Yoshimura also has no team yet, and I won’t be surprised if Kinoshita Meister Tokyo signs him as well to really test out all possible doubles lineups for the Olympics. It's looking like T-League is becoming more of an Olympic preparation/training ground for the JNT rather than an actual competitive league. Haha.
 
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True, but your calculations are much appreciated. What struck me from your computation is that Hirano is now within striking distance from Cheng I-Ching in terms of ranking points. Generally, being seeded 6[SUP]th[/SUP], 7[SUP]th[/SUP], or 8[SUP]th[/SUP] doesn’t really matter and won’t affect the draw. However, if Hirano overtakes Cheng I-Ching next month and becomes WR No. 8, it would be a big boost to her chances to make the singles event in Tokyo. She can basically avoid meeting Top Chinese Players or Ishikawa and Ito till the QF while if she stayed at WR No. 9, she faces them in the R16.

Still, this is all speculation as Sun Yingsha’s recent performances may help her break the top 8 before Hirano can. Let’s wait for the Australian Open and T2 Diamond results to see how things shake out. Even then, Hirano surpassing Cheng I-Ching in ranking, before the World Cup would guarantee her a Top 4 seed in that event, so that would be a short-term win in itself.

In other news, the T-League rosters are being finalized. It looks like Niwa, Mizutani and Harimoto are on the same team. While this may be overpowered, I think JTTA is more concerned on how these 3 work together in preparation for Tokyo 2020. M. Yoshimura also has no team yet, and I won’t be surprised if Kinoshita Meister Tokyo signs him as well to really test out all possible doubles lineups for the Olympics. It's looking like T-League is becoming more of an Olympic preparation/training ground for the JNT rather than an actual competitive league. Haha.

Thank you for such a complimentary assessment ... I can only hope that in my calculations there are no big mistakes ... hmm .....

Of course, need to wait for the results of both the T-2, and the Czech Republic and Bulgaria Open(I am curious about the composition of China on Open ...), WWC (and Asian Champ...)
ITTF, 10/2019
 
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True, but your calculations are much appreciated. What struck me from your computation is that Hirano is now within striking distance from Cheng I-Ching in terms of ranking points. Generally, being seeded 6[SUP]th[/SUP], 7[SUP]th[/SUP], or 8[SUP]th[/SUP] doesn’t really matter and won’t affect the draw. However, if Hirano overtakes Cheng I-Ching next month and becomes WR No. 8, it would be a big boost to her chances to make the singles event in Tokyo. She can basically avoid meeting Top Chinese Players or Ishikawa and Ito till the QF while if she stayed at WR No. 9, she faces them in the R16.

Still, this is all speculation as Sun Yingsha’s recent performances may help her break the top 8 before Hirano can. Let’s wait for the Australian Open and T2 Diamond results to see how things shake out. Even then, Hirano surpassing Cheng I-Ching in ranking, before the World Cup would guarantee her a Top 4 seed in that event, so that would be a short-term win in itself.

In other news, the T-League rosters are being finalized. It looks like Niwa, Mizutani and Harimoto are on the same team. While this may be overpowered, I think JTTA is more concerned on how these 3 work together in preparation for Tokyo 2020. M. Yoshimura also has no team yet, and I won’t be surprised if Kinoshita Meister Tokyo signs him as well to really test out all possible doubles lineups for the Olympics. It's looking like T-League is becoming more of an Olympic preparation/training ground for the JNT rather than an actual competitive league. Haha.

Indeed, Yingsha after Australia Open may be at the 8th position in the ranking, if not even at the seventh ...... And this is without taking into account the T-2!
She can score 11630 - 12405 points .....

8th place definitely ...Plus, the T-2!
 
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Alright I take back every bad thing I said about Ishikawa. Who even takes three games in a row off of Chen Meng? That was amazing. GRATZ
 
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Chen Meng might lose her Olympics single spot because of this lost to Ishikawa. Main point is not it was a Japanese player. Look at the 7th game, Chen Meng looked so nervous under pressure and lost her confidence. This is a crucial aspect for LGL’s consideration.

Now it depends on if DN will lose to Ito again tomorrow.
 
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