Japan Women's Race to Tokyo 2020 Singles

Sali · Nov 25, 2019

karupinkun said:
If you would hold Ishikawa to the same standards...

This is totaly different thing.
Both teams Men and Women how just one top player which is undisputed: Ito and Hariomoto.
The difference is girls side is packed with very good players who have very good year fighting, improving and beating chinese players (ishikawa, hayata, hirano, kato, sato, and others). On the other side we have Mizutani and Niwa having one of the worst years in their career and then nothing long until Yoshimura, mastaka and others top 30 players.
And yes I would choose Ishikawa for second singles and second spot in team competition.
IMO two teams squad I would choose
women: ITO, ISHIKAWA, HAYATA
men: HARIMOTO, MIZUTANI, MASATAKA
xd: ITO, MASATAKA

Vlad Celler · Nov 25, 2019

Sali said:
This is totaly different thing.
Both teams Men and Women how just one top player which is undisputed: Ito and Hariomoto.
The difference is girls side is packed with very good players who have very good year fighting, improving and beating chinese players (ishikawa, hayata, hirano, kato, sato, and others). On the other side we have Mizutani and Niwa having one of the worst years in their career and then nothing long until Yoshimura, mastaka and others top 30 players.
And yes I would choose Ishikawa for second singles and second spot in team competition.
IMO two teams squad I would choose
women: ITO, ISHIKAWA, HAYATA
men: HARIMOTO, MIZUTANI, MASATAKA
xd: ITO, MASATAKA

Curious ... Your opinion - Miu Hirano ... is hopeless?

driversbeat · Nov 25, 2019

Imagine if US came to shock Japan just like how Germany did back in 2016. Not likely, but it would be pretty funny.

Sali · Nov 25, 2019

Vlad Celler said:
Curious ... Your opinion - Miu Hirano ... is hopeless?

Well somebody has to sit down. I chose Hayata since she is the best doubles player in Japan and I am more convinced about Ishikawa over Hirano but lets not start this subject (it is like neverending story

). Anyway in current Ito form any configuration should easily lead them to final. So doubles should be very important. I am even thinking if configuration in doubles Ito and Hayata can be good against China.
1. They take doubles
2. Ishikawa looses
3. Ito wins
4. Ishikawa looses
5. Hayata wins
In that configuration if they take doubles and Ito takes down 1 chinese, it is enough that Ishikawa or Hayata will win one match.

Takkyu_wa_inochi · Nov 25, 2019

I think Sali's team looks quite good on paper... they should hire you !

Personally I hope Hirano can get back to her 2017 form and even surpass it. she's been working on improving her game, but progress is slow. I think she needs more serve and game tactics. Her receive / short game has improved and I think her FH loop opener has improved a bit as well. but its far from enough yet.

karupinkun · Nov 25, 2019

Sali said:
Well somebody has to sit down. I chose Hayata since she is the best doubles player in Japan and I am more convinced about Ishikawa over Hirano but lets not start this subject (it is like neverending story). Anyway in current Ito form any configuration should easily lead them to final. So doubles should be very important. I am even thinking if configuration in doubles Ito and Hayata can be good against China.
1. They take doubles
2. Ishikawa looses
3. Ito wins
4. Ishikawa looses
5. Hayata wins
In that configuration if they take doubles and Ito takes down 1 chinese, it is enough that Ishikawa or Hayata will win one match.

Sorry to say that this makes no sense. You pick Ishikawa, because she can lose both of her games? Well, then you can just take whoever you want.

If you go with Ito, Ishikawa and Hayata you have to field Ito as a doubles player, because Hayata and Ishikawa are both lefties. In addition to Ishikawa´s doubles weakness you dont want to do that.

On the otherhand Ito, Hirano and Hayata you can play as you suggested (not a bad idea to put Ito against CNT in the doubles), but you are still flexible (if Ito wins against the CNT in the singles competition) to put Hirano und Hayata in doubles together.

By your own argumentation Ishikawa shouldn´t be in the lineup.

Vlad Celler · Nov 25, 2019

karupinkun

It is logical ....

NextLevel · Nov 25, 2019

karupinkun said:
Sorry to say that this makes no sense. You pick Ishikawa, because she can lose both of her games? Well, then you can just take whoever you want.

If you go with Ito, Ishikawa and Hayata you have to field Ito as a doubles player, because Hayata and Ishikawa are both lefties. In addition to Ishikawa´s doubles weakness you dont want to do that.

On the otherhand Ito, Hirano and Hayata you can play as you suggested (not a bad idea to put Ito against CNT in the doubles), but you are still flexible (if Ito wins against the CNT in the singles competition) to put Hirano und Hayata in doubles together.

By your own argumentation Ishikawa shouldn´t be in the lineup.

I think sometimes people overestimate the importance of putting the best player in the singles spot and underestimate the importance of putting your players where they can win matches.

I think Ishikawa is still ahead of Hirano at the moment. I would take the team with Ishikawa over the team with Hirano.

Vlad Celler · Nov 25, 2019

NextLevel said:
I think sometimes people overestimate the importance of putting the best player in the singles spot and underestimate the importance of putting your players where they can win matches.

I think Ishikawa is still ahead of Hirano at the moment. I would take the team with Ishikawa over the team with Hirano.

Curious ... Ahead is the TOP-12 (December 21-22) and the Empress Cup (All of Japan), January 2020 ...
It will be interesting to compare the results of Ishikawa and Hirano ... and Hina Hayata ...

Sali · Nov 25, 2019

karupinkun said:
Sorry to say that this makes no sense. You pick Ishikawa, because she can lose both of her games? Well, then you can just take whoever you want.

If you go with Ito, Ishikawa and Hayata you have to field Ito as a doubles player, because Hayata and Ishikawa are both lefties. In addition to Ishikawa´s doubles weakness you dont want to do that.

On the otherhand Ito, Hirano and Hayata you can play as you suggested (not a bad idea to put Ito against CNT in the doubles), but you are still flexible (if Ito wins against the CNT in the singles competition) to put Hirano und Hayata in doubles together.

By your own argumentation Ishikawa shouldn´t be in the lineup.

Good explanation but I just gave one example. The other one is Ishikawa is capable to win at least one of two games so Hayata can loose single.
What I mean is that all women Japanese players do make a progress (even Ishikawa) so it is not easy to choose one who deserves it the most.
Modern doubles need one player with wider wingspan, the one who can play hard FH topspin with full arm extention, both Ishikawa and Hayata can do this. IMO Hirano is not good doubles player, especially if you have to match her with Ito (I know they had some good results some years ago, but today is different doubles).
What is more I think Hirano style is not that much innovative. She plays very risky (huricane) and everything works fine if she is in form but Chinese players. Also her statistic this year is dramatic from 15 matches she won only 3 with 3rd China team. Even Kato, Ishikawa and Sato defeat top Chinese players this year.
So taking Hirano against Chinese is not the best idea.
Ishikawa has same statistic this year but she defeat world no. 1 Cheng Meng and He Zhuojia so 2nd china team also was very close to defeat SYS.
This is just my observation.

Brs · Nov 25, 2019

It's astonishing how much energy is in this thread. But instead of nameless CNT let's say LSW and SYS. Reality is on current form neither Ishikawa nor Hirano can touch either one of them in singles. JNT's only hope is Ito and doubles.

Vlad Celler · Nov 25, 2019

Brs said:
It's astonishing how much energy is in this thread. But instead of nameless CNT let's say LSW and SYS. Reality is on current form neither Ishikawa nor Hirano can touch either one of them in singles. JNT's only hope is Ito and doubles.

Thank you very much Apacible ... He just raised a very interesting topic .... Women's table tennis, the confrontation China-Japan .....Moreover, Tokyo 2020 ... China, in principle, does not want to lose, Japan wants to win the home Olympics ....

Tempest/Comet · Nov 25, 2019

Takkyu_wa_inochi said:
I think Sali's team looks quite good on paper... they should hire you !

Personally I hope Hirano can get back to her 2017 form and even surpass it. she's been working on improving her game, but progress is slow. I think she needs more serve and game tactics. Her receive / short game has improved and I think her FH loop opener has improved a bit as well. but its far from enough yet.

Hirano needs 1) a new coach, the current 22yr old ZS, a training partner, with no world tournament experience, no coaching experience, is a total waste of time, and may have stunted Hirano’s growth and potential.
2) a shrink, badly, to get her out of this “mind gone white” syndrome.
3) a publicist, to advise her when to STF up and not say things that contrast with what JTTA is looking for - someone who has ‘fighting spirit’ and is eager(hungry) for victory.
It’s painful to see such raw talent wasting away.

Vlad Celler · Nov 25, 2019

Curious...
Why Ito has one coach for many years, Macudzaki .... And Hayata, if I understand correctly, one coach for several years ...
Why doesn't Hirano have a permanent coach? What is the reason ? In herself?

driversbeat · Nov 26, 2019

Y'all just mad that Hirano isn't on Ito's level. She's 19 and grappling with emotions is part and parcel of that. She's still an amazing player.

Hysteresis · Nov 26, 2019

driversbeat said:
Imagine if US came to shock Japan just like how Germany did back in 2016. Not likely, but it would be pretty funny.

That would be genuinely shocking, considering Germany is and was an perennial contender for a medal.

The US has a couple of players that might conceivably cause upsets (one in each men/women), but lacks the depth to make this realistic.

zeio · Nov 26, 2019

Vlad Celler said:
Curious...
Why Ito has one coach for many years, Macudzaki .... And Hayata, if I understand correctly, one coach for several years ...
Why doesn't Hirano have a permanent coach? What is the reason ? In herself?

松崎太佑(MATSUZAKI Taisuke) has been coaching Ito since she started junior high school.

石田大輔(ISHIDA Daisuke) has been coaching Hayata since she was an elementary school student.

Hirano has had several coaches over the years - 劉潔(LIU Jie) from 2013/4，中澤鋭/王銳(NAKAZAWA Rui/WANG Rui) from 2015/10，張成(ZHANG Cheng) b/w 2017/4-10 and then from 2018/7. Zhang Cheng had served as her sparring partner and a few others from 2014 until then.

Hirano actually approached Nakazawa to help overhaul her style after she missed out on the Rio Olympics in 2015/9 and Zhang Cheng helped tweak her FH.

zeio · Nov 26, 2019

Wong Chun Ting has pulled out of the MWC. Aruna will replace him.

Niwa: WTGF...
Mizutani: >_<

Vlad Celler · Nov 26, 2019

zeio said:
松崎太佑(MATSUZAKI Taisuke) has been coaching Ito since she started junior high school.

石田大輔(ISHIDA Daisuke) has been coaching Hayata since she was an elementary school student.

Hirano has had several coaches over the years - 劉潔(LIU Jie) from 2013/4，中澤鋭/王銳(NAKAZAWA Rui/WANG Rui) from 2015/10，張成(ZHANG Cheng) b/w 2017/4-10 and then from 2018/7. Zhang Cheng had served as her sparring partner and a few others from 2014 until then.

Hirano actually approached Nakazawa to help overhaul her style after she missed out on the Rio Olympics in 2015/9 and Zhang Cheng helped tweaked her FH.

Curious...
Why Ito has one coach for many years, Macudzaki .... And Hayata, if I understand correctly, one coach for several years ...
Why doesn't Hirano have a permanent coach? What is the reason ? In herself?
松崎太佑(MATSUZAKI Taisuke) has been coaching Ito since she started junior high school.

石田大輔(ISHIDA Daisuke) has been coaching Hayata since she was an elementary school student.

Hirano has had several coaches over the years - 劉潔(LIU Jie) from 2013/4，中澤鋭/王銳(NAKAZAWA Rui/WANG Rui) from 2015/10，張成(ZHANG Cheng) b/w 2017/4-10 and then from 2018/7. Zhang Cheng had served as her sparring partner and a few others from 2014 until then.

Hirano actually approached Nakazawa to help change her style after she missed out on the Rio Olympics in 2015/9 and Zhang Cheng helped tweaked her FH.

Thanks a lot Zeio!
Liu Jie, if I am not mistaken, also trained Mima Ito in 2013-2014?
Is she the coach of Miva Harimoto now?

I sincerely wish Miu Hirano to recover as soon as possible ....

Janard · Nov 26, 2019

zeio said:
松崎太佑(MATSUZAKI Taisuke) has been coaching Ito since she started junior high school.

石田大輔(ISHIDA Daisuke) has been coaching Hayata since she was an elementary school student.

Hirano has had several coaches over the years - 劉潔(LIU Jie) from 2013/4，中澤鋭/王銳(NAKAZAWA Rui/WANG Rui) from 2015/10，張成(ZHANG Cheng) b/w 2017/4-10 and then from 2018/7. Zhang Cheng had served as her sparring partner and a few others from 2014 until then.

Hirano actually approached Nakazawa to help overhaul her style after she missed out on the Rio Olympics in 2015/9 and Zhang Cheng helped tweak her FH.

Hirano's new trick is to dye her hair blonde.

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