Is ma long the GOAT ?

RidTheKid said:

I think we should close this thread, it's just ridiculous quibbling which will lead nowhere.

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A lot of GOAT discussions come down to silly quibbles. The question is whether some people want to accept that there are reasons to disagree or whether some people believe that they are so right that only an idiot can disagree.

zeio said:

How many people are still enraged that Hayata failed to make the lineup? Imagine how much extra work the CNT would have to go through had Hayata been there, in addition to watching out for Ito? Imagine how LSW would've felt?

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Yeah. The problem is that a difficult field to some people is all about China. I can see why they believe this, but it means much more than that. Who knows who the Koreans left out on the ladies side? The dark horse almost eliminated Hoo Doi Kem. Allowing the top countries to field deeper fields makes it harder for everyone. Ricardo Walther and Ruwen Filus or Bendedikt Duda may want their Harimoto rematches. Lim Jonghoon and Cho Seungmin might be wondering why An and not them. You just never know who will cause trouble.

I do get the CNT focus because it impacts them the most. But deeper draws are about more than the CNT. That said, having Xue Fei play just based on the trials would be interesting.

"The TT world is weakest since 2015."

NextLevel said:

Yeah. The problem is that a difficult field to some people is all about China. I can see why they believe this, but it means much more than that. Who knows who the Koreans left out on the ladies side? The dark horse almost eliminated Hoo Doi Kem. Allowing the top countries to field deeper fields makes it harder for everyone. Ricardo Walther and Ruwen Filus or Bendedikt Duda may want their Harimoto rematches. Lim Jonghoon and Cho Seungmin might be wondering why An and not them. You just never know who will cause trouble.

I do get the CNT focus because it impacts them the most. But deeper draws are about more than the CNT. That said, having Xue Fei play just based on the trials would be interesting.

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Exactly. Especially true in the case of South Korea. Less than 4 months ago...

zeio said:

If you've followed the scene long enough, you'd notice that South Korean players are among the streakiest, yet have produced many if not the most powerful upsets in memory. Many of them share one common trait - high risk, high reward all-out step-around. Notable players from other countries are Gatien at WTTC 1993, Schlager at WTTC 2003 and Aruna at World Cup 2014 and Rio Olympics. Fang Bo at WTTC 2015 is another. The catch here is the high demand on form and stamina. That's why you see these players deviate a lot. But when that condition is met, this tactical style is the most disruptive. Coupled with the intense pressure, it's very hard to deal with and recover from.

Now the problem is you can never be certain when it'll be coming ahead of time. In the same manner, the player who chooses to play like this will also find it hard to get started. Ito is the latest example.

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I am just waiting for China Open now. Will post in this thread after we get to know the winner

zeio said:

Get in line. I have Vietnamese relatives in the US. They never sound like a whiny baby. Ya, like you're the only one who have gone through hardships.

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Your relatives? They for sure are Chinese Vietnamese who ran away not political but financial reasons. They bribed Viet commies to let them escape and got here with still a lot of money. Wonder why they didn't whine?

Wow. I keep thinking rock bottom must be within reach, but everytime I do new depths get explored.

Let’s not seek the lowest in us, folks.

The table tennis GOAT : The Greatest player of ALL Times in table tennis

Qualified nominators:
* members of TTD only. Folks from others are not qualified.
* must have played table tennis as a hobby or is an amateur or professional
* alive (to be able to defend opinions)

Candidacy Criteria:
*The candidates eligible for the GOAT are those persons ominated by qualified individuals, see above. A nomination for yourself will not be taken into consideration.

How is the GOAT selected?

Here is a description of the process involved in selecting the GOAT.

When: Start immediately when requested/asked in a post by any member of TTD. Debate will start then candidates are nominated. Deadline is 2 weeks.

Frequency: Nominations postmarked and received after this date are included in the following year’s discussions. Only 1 GOAT discussion per year is allowed.

Methodology: Voting. Once debates end after 2 weeks of fierce fighting. Only TTD members are allow to vote for his/her favorite. Voting process will be completed within 2 weeks after debates finished. Members are encouraged to be non-biased as much as possible so the GOAT can be chosen with the least controversy. Known that there is no such thing as perfectness members should refrain from calling other idiots if their nominations not selected. Members will be severely punished (by banning from TTD admin/owner) if they continue discussion after the GOAT is chosen. After a year members are allowed to raise the topic again and new debates/nomination/selection cycle can start. The yearly selection is selected to settle GOAT or GOHT. It means up to this time (the day a candidate wins the GOAT) he/she is the GOAT, a non-deniable fact! Any new arguments will be done next year for god sake or will be severely punished ha ha...

I've not been following TT for that long so I'm a bit biased towards Ma Long, I wasn't there when he had his mental struggles or when the other greats were playing (though I'm a big fan of Waldner).

ML's beautiful style of play, dominance and character are a few things that make him my FOAT (favourite player of all time). I'm also because of this biased to say he's the greatest player so far. Maybe I should say he's my favourite greatest player of all time out of the potential greatest ones. Perhaps those who have followed table tennis in the recent years of ML's career will intuitively think of him as the GOAT.. as it's difficult to think of others as dominant of a player. But then there are of course all the nuances and stuff people have brought up. If you followed other great players closely then you can conceive of them being the greatest when you take into account certain factors.. etc.

Greatest of all time in this literal sense seems too difficult to define.. everyone is affected by their biases.

Greatest of all time in this literal sense seems too difficult to define.. everyone is affected by their biases.

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Exactly! So how do you think Nobel committee decides Nobel Peace Prize? It is done yearly for such even more controversial subject than this GOAT fictitious award, and we can use the same methodology. Or we agree to disagree is the best principle. But it seems many people still do not even accept this principle. This is why voting to satisfy a majority of TTD folks temporarily is perhaps the best resolution.

Hello
Ma Long is the GOAT.
Even comparing with older players and older eras : he won the most titles, and standed the longest time as World number 1.
If that continues like last month, he will go back to #1 next year !!
ML has more skills, more titles than everyone else.
I deeply hope that he will compete at the 2020 OG and win, he would be the only TWICE grand Slam Champion !

By the way, I continued to calcuate the world ranking as it was done til 2017 (with the old ITTF system), and Ma Long, after having had to be #2 during some months, came back to #1 in May !!
You can check the top players ranking according to the old ITTF rankng system on my website here :
table-tennis-world-ranking-old-ittf-system.webnode.fr/

I think Squish and Squiggle are the best pet rats ever, and I defy anyone to prove otherwise!



Look. They even hug each other!



Now who is going to try and prove they are not the GOAT pet rats!

I seen 'dem rats before... live... I think Carl could take them to Vaudville and make sum dough.

Maybe his daughter will make a few billion in theatre, who knows? Then Carl could do yoga for fun and TT for serious GOAT smack talk.

NextLevel said:

Well what about you? You claimed that ML said he lost to Wang Hao because of technique not because of mentality. Have you corrected yourself since Zeio has quoted otherwise?

Everyone makes mistakes. But some people own up to them.

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I have no problem with a fan...girl "being misinformed." It's just that once people choose to "be misinformed", then I feel I'm entitled to that as well. It makes life so much easier. You're fake news!

rainneverever said:

ML said in an earlier interview with Stiga (2016 Sep) that when he succeeds, people say he is mentally strong; when he fails, people say he is mentally weak. He does not think he is gaining mental strength when he wins. He just does what he has to.

Let me found if there is a subbed version on Youtube.

You can blame ML for not being consistent in interviews? Or blame people who don't show all the interviews?

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Sep 2016...

Here's one from Jan 2017, not an interview per se, which I've shown enough of them, but a segment from the Jiangsu Spring Festival Gala 2017, where LGL, MLin, CQ and ML came on stage to thank the people they most wanted.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present, "What the Fan...girls Won't Translate for You."

@2:05
http://news.jstv.com/a/20170128/1485584147460.shtml?fromzt=wscw2017

So is WH the GOAT since ML didn't beat him at WTTC?

zeio said:

I have no problem with a fan...girl "being misinformed." It's just that once people choose to "be misinformed", then I feel I'm entitled to that as well. It makes life so much easier. You're fake news!



Sep 2016...

Here's one from Jan 2017, not an interview per se, which I've shown enough of them, but a segment from the Jiangsu Spring Festival Gala 2017, where LGL, MLin, CQ and ML came on stage to thank the people they most wanted.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present, "What the Fan...girls Won't Translate for You."

@2:05
http://news.jstv.com/a/20170128/1485584147460.shtml?fromzt=wscw2017

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On the flip side, ML being the GOAT couldn't beat WH...

RidTheKid said:

So is WH the GOAT since ML didn't beat him at WTTC?

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Of course not, I told you must agree on ZJK or it will never end because ZJK beat WH twice at WTTC!
And I really feel pity for a Chinese speaking person who doesn't understand 自嘲 laugh at oneself. * And a tip, next time don't show ML's facial expression or cut off the laugh at the end
ML once joked that he and DN had been married for three years when people teased them wearing DHS clothes (double happiness is often used for wedding). Zeio must believe that and may explain everything.

zeio said:

On the flip side, ML being the GOAT couldn't beat WH...

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Let's make it straight. Do you think ZJK is GOAT of TT and tell us why or why not.

I will never bend to that silly rhetoric. But I will repeat that having troubles against one particular player happens to everyone, be it psychological or technical or both, difference is that ML has more wins against every opponent he met more than twice. How many players does WH have minus against, or ZJK? No other player on the planet can say the same thing. ML is the most dominant player in history. I repeat: ML has plus stats against EVERY other player on this planet that he played more than twice. ML shares the spot for most tour wins in history with Vladi 12 years his senior. ZJK lost his fire and you are making up excuses and stories why he's not relevant anymore. Get over it, ZJK is done and they're even from the same "era". Meantime, ML is planning to win the next China open and stand alone with most tour wins in history.

zeio said:

On the flip side, ML being the GOAT couldn't beat WH...

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Not the GOAT, ZJK is perhaps the most talented chinese player ever, though.

rainneverever said:

Let's make it straight. Do you think ZJK is GOAT of TT and tell us why or why not.

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