Is ma long the GOAT ?

zeio said:

Ya, when the people of your country voted for a controversial president that so many find unwelcoming. 3 years in and your own people still question if Russia had a hand in his election. So much for democracy.

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Yes, we are proud of such controversy and it makes our life more fun to live. So ... your obedience to CCP must give you a lot of happiness?

NextLevel said:

Usualsuspect accuses me of unsportsmanlike behavior because I say certain players are not great (or not as great as others). He argues I can't do so because I am not a journalist. I suspect his real goal is to make you write it so he can accuse you of being disrespectful and unsportsmanlike.

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He was offended at me for the same thing!! Just saying. I find that puzzling seeing Trump is so offensive.

tropical said:

Yes, we are proud of such controversy and it makes our life more fun to live. So ... your obedience to CCP must give you a lot of happiness?

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Ya, always under the potential threat of gun violence. Life must be very exciting.

Ha ha what a joke! China is one of the safest place on earth .. so are Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Cuba. Yawn .. how come politics has anything to do with ML being a GOAT?

How come voting has anything to do with ML being a GOAT? You want Russia to have a hand in that, too?

Because we don't agree on a set of rules to determine what GOAT should have. This is why voting is the best method for subjective question. Unless you can propose a better way voting can decide who is the GOAT.

UpSideDownCarl said:

Okay. Yoass and Zeio both made me laugh.

As far as I am concerned, Der_Echte is the goat....or, at least he is the Satyr. And there is nobody who can beat him in a chicken and beer bet.

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I normally do not read these kind of threads, but Carl's bad-azz spyPhone gave me an auto notification... that I read... after I regained consciousness.

My friend Mark Flores had a 14 hr layover in Seoul, and I informed him of a couple clubs 4-5 km away from airport...

He went to Sky TTC near Incheon Airport...

NO ONE wanted to play Man-Won BBANG (Winner takes all) where 4-6 players do a round robin, contribute 10 USD, winner of group takes ALL the pot, all the losers get BBANG (zero, nothing, zilch)

So, the locals flat out REFUSED to get lured in. Smart Locals.

Mark Flores is the GOAT of scaring grown adults. Der_Echte is retired.

Okay on this point , find me a true democracy, first of all Trump won because of gerrymandering and electoral college ... second there is no true democracy as long as the stakes are high enough ... every vote is influenced by external factors ...the literal meaning of the word democracy is power/rule of the people ... show me a country where this is true ... so like every other system this is also not foolproof ... just saying in this vote malongfamilyfanclub might decide to give away Ma Long signed balls if you vote for Ma Long and even though I was sitting on the fence on who is the GOAT I would vote for Ma Long because I don't care who wins the vote ...

... but I do second @UpSideDownCarl 's nomination of @Der_Echte as the GOAT

zeio said:

Ya, when the people of your country voted for a controversial president that so many find unwelcoming. 3 years in and your own people still question if Russia had a hand in his election. So much for democracy.

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There is no such thing as a perfect system. We all know that. But to choose where to live between China or any communist countries and America/European countries .. I'd choose the latter without any blink. The American sucker who said China is one of the safest places to live is not the norm. We have quite a few executives and engineers when assigned to China refused to go to Shenzhen, but Hong Kong. That says a lot about living in China.

The voting is not perfect either but it is a relatively best solution to settle debates. And of curse debate will still continue regardless what the voting outcome is. We can then say voting, stats show who is the GOAT so shut up dumb A S S.

zeio said:

He was offended at me for the same thing!! Just saying. I find that puzzling seeing Trump is so offensive

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Omg... *sigh*... *longer sigh*...
I wasn't offended by either you or NextLevel. You guys are taking an online discussion way too seriously.
What exactly did I say that makes you think I'm offended? Please point out.

I also didn't say anything offensive to you or NextLevel, and I even actively tried to deescalate the situation with NextLevel.
I directly asked him to point out if anything I said was offending him. If so, I'm willing to apologize.
Instead of facing my inquiry, he just sidestepped it and hurled more insults (not really at me, but just in my general direction, not sure what he's really mad about). So I just stopped responding to his posts.

If you can't handle a genial online discussion, which requires genuine questions and answers from both sides to understand each other, please learn when to stop it.
zeio, man, I've tried twice to end our discussion. You keep bringing me back. But I'll stop for real this time, no matter what you say. Feel free to have that last word if you want. (P.S. I hope you knew my previous post about Trump was facetious. I didn't vote for him and I certainly don't agree with anything he says or does).

I say we let all the fangirls from China vote on whether ZJK or ML is the best. I have a feeling the votes won't have much to do with TT skills....even if some of them can post a lot of stats.

I'd narrow it down to people in this forum only Carl. Otherwise China will be the GOAT in any categories.

tropical said:

I'd narrow it down to people in this forum only Carl. Otherwise China will be the GOAT in any categories.

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Well, I narrowed it to ZJK and ML but I guess, as long as we are also narrowing to only women voting, we can hope that many of the votes are more about physical attraction rather than TT skillz. Because, if it is arbitrary, then why not make it arbitrary.

Okay guys, I am just joking around. So, I am not trying to offend anyone. And I do respect that some people may really know the sport and not be judging by other qualifications.

This debate has seriously been derailed. Please stop that.

usualsuspect said:

Omg... *sigh*... *longer sigh*...
I wasn't offended by either you or NextLevel. You guys are taking an online discussion way too seriously.
What exactly did I say that makes you think I'm offended? Please point out.

I also didn't say anything offensive to you or NextLevel, and I even actively tried to deescalate the situation with NextLevel.
I directly asked him to point out if anything I said was offending him. If so, I'm willing to apologize.
Instead of facing my inquiry, he just sidestepped it and hurled more insults (not really at me, but just in my general direction, not sure what he's really mad about). So I just stopped responding to his posts.

If you can't handle a genial online discussion, which requires genuine questions and answers from both sides to understand each other, please learn when to stop it.
zeio, man, I've tried twice to end our discussion. You keep bringing me back. But I'll stop for real this time, no matter what you say. Feel free to have that last word if you want. (P.S. I hope you knew my previous post about Trump was facetious. I didn't vote for him and I certainly don't agree with anything he says or does).

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I am a bit lost here. You really think accusing someone of lacking respect and sportsmanship for TT players is polite?

RidTheKid said:

This debate has seriously been derailed. Please stop that.

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Derailed how? Fanboys never tire of hearing how great Ma Long is. You know you can find many threads saying the same thing. This one just goes off and on once in a while. Just find new stats to show that Ma Long beat more people and it will be back on track. They just won't be Wang Hao at a WTTC.

Even someone in this forum is more skilled than me playing TT (I only do push and smash, a little FH but no BH topspins), he/she won't be as skilled as many pros, not to mention CNT coaches and players. Does everyone here agree with all pros' opinions (most likely they don't all agree with each other on certain things)? If not, why TT skills really matter when it comes to discussions especially on stats. And the stats are even not about the speed and rotation types of a player made in a certain match, not about FH/BH usage, not about the frequency of serve placements...


Sure, we need to have certain understanding of the sport to discuss in depth and the better one plays, the better chance one understands the important aspects of the game or better enjoys the game. But the basics and essence of TT, power, speed, spin, placement can be easily appreciated by a unskilled player or a TT fan who spends more time watching TT than playing. Because of common sense. Because there are commentary from experts in the field. I can be convinced if one in this forum has solid analyses and rational thinking but not simply by the fact that one plays more and better TT than me. Why should I not take LGL's words then?


Then back to the fangirl thing. Many fangirls don't watch live match, don't watch match in full (just highlights), don't watch the losing points (just "epic" shots), or even don't watch at all. When their idol won, all the credits went to their idol (male or female) because of the best skills, the bravest heart, the most gifted talent... When their idol lost, all the excuses were found as the match was fixed, the opponent got better access to resources from nutrition to coaches to technical support, or their idol was treated poorly (no treatment and rehabilitation, no coach, no nutrition...) Years ago I told about the story of a hotpot restaurant which LGL, ML and MLin have a liitle investment on. ZJK fangirls in China believe ML's so-called success is all arranged by this hotpot gang (if someone doesn't believe it, she will be regarded as a general TT fan or ML fan, no exception). Previously some LSW fangirls believed DN's success was also because of the hotpot gang who limited LSW's access to resources. And recently some DN fangirls believed LSW is part of hotpot gang and that's why she won 2019 WTTC.


I get offended if you put me along those fangirls. I follow big tournaments, watch TT matches and not only ML's matches. And to get better understanding, I watched replays of certain interesting matches with different commentators. Without language barrier, I can be exposed to opinions of CNT coaches and players when they commentated and I can build up my own thoughts, which can be evolving (to my surprise, many people here don't change their mind on TT even TT equipment and rules change so much and technical trend change so much). And I never make up things and I never simply attribute losses of a player, no matter ML or not, to the fault of the opponent.


Anyways, people won't be open-minded all of a sudden. And it is not my loss if they cannot be.

Back to the vote, where is JW?

rainneverever said:

Come on, did JW beat any former WTTC MS winner (s) in WTTC MS event? Yes or No. It is not a difficult question and JW's victory over former WTTC winner JJL in team event doesn't help your argument on singles champion gold content because those are two separate tournaments.

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Someone here argued that JW WTTC MS title has more gold content because he beat former WTTC MS winner JJL in WTTTC, although WTTC and WTTTC are two separate events. Interesting thoughts just came to my mind following that logic.
Let's see who beat former OG MS winners in OG team events or beat former WTTC MS winners in WTTTC in the past two decades.

2000 WTTTC, KLH beat JW, JP beat KLH, both JP and JW beat LGL (defending WTTC MS champion)
2012 OG team, TB beat ZJK (defending OG MS champion), ML beat RSM
2014 WTTTC, DO beat ZJK (defending WTTC MS champion)

And I have already found some "good excuses" to explain the results:
2000 JW and KLH, old and past prime (wait, these 2 made to 2000 OG MS final later the year?)
2000 LGL, affected by doping accusation
2000 JP, "must be doped"
2012 RSM, old and past prime; ML, lucky
2012 TB, "must be doped"; ZJK did not care about unimportant match
2014 ZJK, injured and/or did not care about unimportant match; DO lucky

Derail the thread?

OK, send me your "Thread Derail Request Form" in triplicate and I will see if the Goon Squad has any commitments presently.

Please consider this a formal request to derail this thread , thats the only way to stop this obsession with finding the goat !!!

Der_Echte said:

Derail the thread?

OK, send me your "Thread Derail Request Form" in triplicate and I will see if the Goon Squad has any commitments presently.

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