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    1. Top | #521
      darucla is online now
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      https://www.gocomics.com/peanuts/1955/07/17
      Charles Schultz is the GOAT.

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    3. Top | #522
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      Quote Originally Posted by darucla View Post
      https://www.gocomics.com/peanuts/1955/07/17
      Charles Schultz is the GOAT.
      ... no no .. Ma Long is the GOAT ... don't you dare say anymore ...
      Lets go Spinny Looping !

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    5. Top | #523
      darucla is online now
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      Perhaps Carl Barks, in a slightly different context...

    6. Top | #524
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      The question is being framed in terms of those people who he had to beat not those people who he didn't.
      Sorry for a dumb question, who were PEOPLE that ML had to beat again?



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    7. Top | #525
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      Quote Originally Posted by ttmonster View Post
      ... no no .. Ma Long is the GOAT ... don't you dare say anymore ...
      Haha .... One of the most VALID votings were running in this forum , so how can we deny it ????

      Zhang jike and Malong are laughing at these arguments

      Click image for larger version. 

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      And are praying to see this endless discussion ending .

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      Last edited by ping fun; 05-16-2019 at 07:39 PM.

    8. Top | #526
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      Quote Originally Posted by bricephan View Post
      Sorry for a dumb question, who were PEOPLE that ML had to beat again?



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    9. Top | #527
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      The problem with GOAT is there are so many variables:
      Consistancy

      Ability on their best day

      Ability on their worst day

      Titles held

      Duration of their Peak/Top 3 skill level

      Quality of opposition

      all of these factor in but its personal opinion on how important each are. Let take HW boxing for example, many fans consider Mike Tyson as a top 5 ever, because on his best he nuked everyone and most of them in under 2 minutes, they don't care about the fact the opposition was eh apart from 2-3 people, or that he was prime for 2 years because for them its about at their best who would win
      Many others say he isnt top 5 because he never proved it enough for long enough so even though he might be exceptional on one night your legacy is important
      Differing ways of thinking mean there will never be a consensus at 100% and I think belittling other people about this is pointless, this is of course as long as no one calls WCT the Goat on MYTT or it will just be an angry shouty place. The argument makes more importance, the most valid for ME against ML is the relative weakness of the Era
      While ML was in his true dominant era he "only" had to dominate: ZJK, XX, FB (used to actually be v good), YA, FZD and the like
      for example
      WLQ had to fight: JO-W, LGL, KLH, MLin, WH, WS etc, not only was china as strong and realistically stronger then EU was MUCH better competition

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    11. Top | #528
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      The staying power of this thread is truly remarkable.

    12. Top | #529
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      I agree when you mentioned there are many variables and people weight them differently. There are ways to compare and/or quantify each variable. But we don't have to, especially in this forum.


      When you talked about the competitiveness of the field, you don't compare ML's and WLQ's opponents the same way when you take them as examples. That's what always confuses me in this forum, can't people see their double standards?


      WLQ had to fight with elder JOW, LGL and KLH in what? WTTC and OG? WLQ beat KLH in 2001 when he first won WTTC and he beat JW in 2004 OG bronze match. Other than that he didn't meet the above three GS winners in majors. Is that the fight and dominance all about? He didn't even meet LGL... Or minor competition in world tour and CNT trials matter now (since you listed a lot of other players who don't have very shiny major results)? He had to fight with MLin, WH, no doubt. Outside CNT, TB wasn't nobody. He didn't have to fight with younger generation especially after glue ban then? It sounds like he retired in 2008.
      And the same standard has to be applied to ML or others if you discuss this way. ML didn't have to fight with elder WLQ, MLin, WH like you said WLQ had to fight with JW, KLH, LGL? Say only majors matter. WLQ didn't meet ML in majors, ML beat MLin, WH beat ML three times, so ML didn't dominate them in majors. True. Then ML didn't dominate XX, YA either because they didn't meet in majors. If minor or internal competition is considered here, again didn't ML play with WLQ, MLin, WH many times?


      I really don't care if your criteria argue against or for ML. But please just use the same criteria. Like it is fine that ZJK fans here argue that ML's WTTC titles of low gold content because he didn't beat any former WTTC winner. No problem. Then they have to apply the same standard to JW's WTTC titles and ZJK's OG title, etc.


      To give my full respect to JW and WLQ, I think the duration of being winner in majors important. I already listed the duration in previous post.


      JW 1989-1997, 8 years/3 majors
      WLQ 2001-2007, 6 years/3 majors
      KLH 1995-2000, 5 years/2 majors
      ML 2015-2019, 4 years/4 majors
      LGL 1996-1999, 3 years/2 majors
      ZJK 2011-2013, 2 years/3 majors
      MLin 2008, 1 year/1 major
      WH 2009, 1 year/1 major


      Last but not least, European TT world is not as strong as JW's time but Korea and Japan do exist. Korea doesn't have recent WTTC winner but does have OG winner. And Korea and Japan made to WTTTC or OG final recently.


      Quote Originally Posted by passifid View Post
      The problem with GOAT is there are so many variables:


      While ML was in his true dominant era he "only" had to dominate: ZJK, XX, FB (used to actually be v good), YA, FZD and the like
      for example
      WLQ had to fight: JO-W, LGL, KLH, MLin, WH, WS etc, not only was china as strong and realistically stronger then EU was MUCH better competition

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    14. Top | #530
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      One thing first. For me ML is GOAT. The only others I would consider are JO and barna.
      I also didn't actually look up WLQ opposition in majors I just meant the amount of elite tier players is lower in general now than it used to be. I can list a lot of players of the standard of boll from the early 2000s EU.
      Also Korea was stronger in the 2000s RSM and JSH back then were a bigger threat than now.
      Japan? I will concede TH is as impactful on CNT as a young JM. And JM is still around.
      When I watch older tournaments there is much more competition than now. It was a shock for about a year if we didn't se exactly a ML FZD final. There wasn't even a third until LGY showed up after ML and FZD surpassed XX
      But again I like next level believe people sleep on young ML because he won small ticket items instead of majors

    15. Top | #531
      rainneverever is online now
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      CNT's mindset is that with plastic ball, CNT's advantage over others becomes smaller so they have to work harder to adapt and improve. Before plastic ball, CNT also had the mindset to keep working and moving forward. They never think they are safe. And the fact is that CNT players lost to non-CNT no matter it is cell ball time or plastic ball time, no matter it is KLH/LGL generation, WLQ/MLin/WH generation, ZJK/ML/XX generation or FZD generation.


      When talking about the competitiveness around the world and/or CNT's dominance, what does it really mean? CNT victories in team events? The ratio of CNT/non-CNT players in top 10 ranking, or top 30 ranking? All Chinese singles finals? All Chinese podium finish in majors? The counts of non-CNT players beating CNT players, or beating top 4-5 CNT players?


      Take podium finish as an example. * is when CNT had maximum podium finish in recent majors
      1997 WTTC, 2 CNT on podium, bronze (others Sweden, Belarus)
      1999 WTTC, 2 CNT on podium, gold, silver (others Sweden, Austria)
      2000 OG, 2 CNT on podium, gold, bronze (the other Sweden)
      2001 WTTC, 3 CNT on podium, gold, silver, bronze (the other Chinese Taipei)
      2003 WTTC, 1 CNT on podium, bronze (others Austria, Greece, Korea)
      2004 OG, 2 CNT on podium, silver, bronze (the other Korea)
      2005 WTTC, 2 CNT on podium, gold, silver (others Korea, Denmark)
      2007 WTTC, 3 CNT on podium, gold, silver, bronze (the other Korea)
      *2008 OG, 3 CNT on podium, gold, silver, bronze
      *2009 WTTC, 4 CNT on podium, gold, silver, bronze
      2011 WTTC, 3 CNT on podium, gold, silver, bronze (the other Germany)
      *2012 OG, 2 CNT on podium, gold, silver (the other Germany)
      *2013 WTTC, 4 CNT on podium, gold, silver, bronze
      *2015 WTTC, 4 CNT on podium, gold, silver, bronze
      *2016 OG, 2 CNT on podium, gold, silver (the other Japan)
      2017 WTTC, 3 CNT on podium, gold, silver, bronze (the other Korea)
      2019 WTTC, 2 CNT on podium, gold, bronze (others Sweden, Korea)


      When is it most "competitive" around the world? When is CNT most "dominant"?

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    17. Top | #532
      Der_Echte is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by suds79 View Post
      The staying power of this thread is truly remarkable.
      Nah, add to that the ability to reproduce faster than two thousand bunnies.
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    19. Top | #533
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      @rainneverever : No body has posted in 4 hours why Ma Long is unquestionably the Greatest of All Time ... come on it feels weird when Der_Echte has the last word on this thread .. his only contribution so far has been to post a Monkey's butt meme !!!

      I am hereby requesting Der_Echte and others to delete their posts so that the Ma Long Fans can have the last word on this thread. They deserve it for putting up such a valiant fight against all other members here who are not true worshipers and believers of Ma Long !
      Last edited by ttmonster; 05-17-2019 at 04:47 AM.

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    21. Top | #534
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      A picture is worth a thousand words. No more argument boy and girls, ok?Click image for larger version. 

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    22. Top | #535
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      Quote Originally Posted by suds79 View Post
      The staying power of this thread is truly remarkable.
      It's a coup. Over the course of a few weaks, this thread has become the GOAT.
      Last edited by yoass; 05-17-2019 at 09:12 AM.

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    24. Top | #536
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      People who are not interested in the subject still tend to put time and energy to post irrelevant pictures or recipes of korean barbecues instead of ignoring the thread entirely. Why even comment on a thread if one is not interested in the subject? Should I come to your playground and pee in your sandbox?


      Quote Originally Posted by yoass View Post
      It's a coup. Over the course of a few weaks, this thread as become the GOAT.

    25. Top | #537
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      Quote Originally Posted by RidTheKid View Post
      People who are not interested in the subject still tend to put time and energy to post irrelevant pictures or recipes of korean barbecues instead of ignoring the thread entirely. Why even comment on a thread if one is not interested in the subject? Should I come to your playground and pee in your sandbox?
      I would pay good money for the video footage of that.

      When someone is interested in the spectacle of all of us grown adults making fools of ourselves, jumping in with Korean barbecues or footage of the people's popular front may actually be, in a certain sense, on subject.

      Introspection: it is worth being able to laugh at your own folly.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 05-17-2019 at 02:31 PM.
      Spin Everything.

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    27. Top | #538
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      Quote Originally Posted by ttmonster View Post
      @rainneverever : No body has posted in 4 hours why Ma Long is unquestionably the Greatest of All Time ... come on it feels weird when Der_Echte has the last word on this thread .. his only contribution so far has been to post a Monkey's butt meme !!!

      I am hereby requesting Der_Echte and others to delete their posts so that the Ma Long Fans can have the last word on this thread. They deserve it for putting up such a valiant fight against all other members here who are not true worshipers and believers of Ma Long !
      Hey, I nominated MARK FLORES for GOAT... and gave a damned good reason for it...

      That dude had to be beat-down dog tired after his 14 hr flight to Korea, but he had a 14 hr layover and absolutely HAD to play some TT in a Korean club, so I gave him a couple ideas for two clubs within 5 km of the airport.

      He made it an adventure to learn the subway and try to get to a club the first time, a task many Koreans fail at in 4 attempts... but Mark tried a 5th time and got there... then all insanity broke loose. Mark is a Div 1 city player in Korean standard and was itching to do the chicken/beer round robin. The locals were highly reluctant to bite on the bait. maybe someone warned them off. Who will ever know?

      What we know, is that such a TT mission is absolute EPIC and deserving of GOAT status. Mark is rolling how I used to roll.

    28. Top | #539
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      In case anyone missed it, I also contributed TTD member LITEN's favorite STRONG BAD doing hiz thing calling himself GOAT_FACE. I embed a pic of the GOAT_FACE where Strong Bad calls up Marzipan to discuss that.

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    30. Top | #540
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      Aah ... thats my favorite picture of Ma Long ...I dunno how I missed .. I really should have been paying more attention to this thread !!! My sincerest apologies my dear sir ! I request you to keep sharing these golden nuggets of wisdom in this thread ...
      Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte View Post
      In case anyone missed it, I also contributed TTD member LITEN's favorite STRONG BAD doing hiz thing calling himself GOAT_FACE. I embed a pic of the GOAT_FACE where Strong Bad calls up Marzipan to discuss that.

      Click image for larger version. 

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