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    1. Top | #1
      tt chats is offline
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      Learn serving and receiving tactics from Ma Long and Liang Jingkun

      Budapest Semifinals

      See Ma Long’s this pair of serving. (2:15-2:24)

      After the first serve, why:

      Ma Long served an identical serve again?

      The two results were completely different?

      https://youtu.be/b7dmkieIb10?t=135
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    2. Top | #2
      NextLevel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by tt chats View Post
      Budapest Semifinals

      See Ma Long’s this pair of serving. (2:15-2:24)

      After the first serve, why:

      Ma Long served an identical serve again?

      The two results were completely different?

      https://youtu.be/b7dmkieIb10?t=135
      The spin is not identical. But if you even pretend it is, the stroke size from LJK is not the same. But the spin is not identical.
      Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    3. Top | #3
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      As said above. Difficult to see, but I believe the first serve has more right sidespin, while the second one is more underspin.

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    5. Top | #4
      Wister is offline
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      The serve is maybe the same but it was received differently, the first one with the FH then with the BH. Maybe he just reads it better on the first one and was ready sooner. To me it looks like he was a bit late on the BH and coud not make good contact

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    7. Top | #5
      whocarez is offline
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      Probably most people watching TT know this already, slowmotion on youtube is essential for trying to figure out what is going on. It does not always help, but you may pause the video with space and go backward/forward frame by frame with , and . (comma and period) on the keyboard.
      Last edited by whocarez; 1 Week Ago at 06:15 AM.

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    9. Top | #6
      RidTheKid is offline
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      Also there's a reason Ma Longs opponents consider his serves to be very deceptive. He can deliver a lot of different spins and level of spins (most important) with the same motion keeping the receiver guessing and often guessing wrong.

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    11. Top | #7
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      Basics of good service- same movement but different types of contacts during ball impact gives variations of spin.

    12. Top | #8
      tt chats is offline
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      Was it because Liang went down the net, so you think that was backspin?

      The camera's angle let us see Ma's motion clearly, although it was fast. It seems that Ma seldom serves a ball like this with back spin. Personally, I think it was the same as the first one.

      How about the 2nd question? Even if it had been back spin, why would Liang have not done the same?

    13. Top | #9
      NextLevel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by tt chats View Post
      Was it because Liang went down the net, so you think that was backspin?

      The camera's angle let us see Ma's motion clearly, although it was fast. It seems that Ma seldom serves a ball like this with back spin. Personally, I think it was the same as the first one.

      How about the 2nd question? Even if it had been back spin, why would Liang have not done the same?
      Look at the complete swing motion on the serve. On the second one Ma Long comes more under the ball.

    14. Top | #10
      tt chats is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      Look at the complete swing motion on the serve. On the second one Ma Long comes more under the ball.
      Even so, why Liang did not do the same?

    15. Top | #11
      vik2000 is offline
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      Well, Mizutani says ML is the best at serving because it's very difficult to read his spin as he uses near identical motions for every serve with a different spin.

    16. Top | #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by tt chats View Post
      Even so, why Liang did not do the same?
      Well if you are standing where he is, you see something different. The other thing to remember is that Liang has watched and played Ma Long many times so there are cues he is looking for. It is quite possible that something Ka Long did to setup the serve threw him off. Match play in terms of reading what the opponent is going to do requires you to know how they think.

    17. Top | #13
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      He didn't expect to get the same serve again, or maybe wanted to open with a bh flip.

      Quote Originally Posted by tt chats View Post
      Even so, why Liang did not do the same?

    18. Top | #14
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      I think a lot of table tennis is about making a tactical choice, then pulling it off if the conditions are favorable. For the first one, Liang might have been thinking about taking a long serve into the backhand with the forehand, and it paid off. He might have tactically been thinking of doing something else the second time. He probably wasn't expecting Ma Long to do 2 in a row, especially after he completely shut the first one down.

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    20. Top | #15
      whocarez is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by tt chats View Post
      Even so, why Liang did not do the same?
      There are many possibilities, tactics is one of them eg. how you want to play the next couple of balls. If you pause and watch the first serve closely, at 2:16 - already when the ball is falling down Liang is pivoting around to play a forehand from his backhand side. He made a decision before the serve was completely executed. Maybe he read an early cue and was able to play a more powerful shot, maybe tactics or possibly just took a chance that paid off. Whatever you do, you want to be as unpredictable as possible. Easy to say though, quite hard in reality.

    21. Top | #16
      tt chats is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by vik2000 View Post
      Well, Mizutani says ML is the best at serving because it's very difficult to read his spin as he uses near identical motions for every serve with a different spin.
      It's quite beyond my expectation. Personally, I think Ma's serving is the weakest comparing with his other skills. I'll say FH looping is his best.

    22. Top | #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by Wister View Post
      The serve is maybe the same but it was received differently, the first one with the FH then with the BH. Maybe he just reads it better on the first one and was ready sooner. To me it looks like he was a bit late on the BH and coud not make good contact

      I think alike with Wister's. Below is what I think personally.
      (I know some buddies think the 2nd serve was a back spin. Please don't mind. Welcome to share what you think!)

      The 1st serve: Liang's judge was good, so he made a nice return. Few people can do this to Ma.

      The 2nd serve: Ma judged Liang didn't dare to do the same, so he served the same again. This time Ma was right, so he got a completely different result.

      What we can learn and use: As buddies have pointed out already, especially on serving and receiving, it's half predicting and half guessing. The same serve (or similar) can have completely different results. Other than skills, thinking more about the opponent is important.
      Last edited by tt chats; 1 Week Ago at 02:20 AM.

    23. Top | #18
      RidTheKid is offline
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      It's very hard to win points on the serve outright. What they try to create with the serve is an advantage to get a weak return to kill. As a receiver the hard part is to calculate the amount of spin.

      Quote Originally Posted by tt chats View Post
      It's quite beyond my expectation. Personally, I think Ma's serving is the weakest comparing with his other skills. I'll say FH looping is his best.

    24. Top | #19
      tt chats is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by RidTheKid View Post
      It's very hard to win points on the serve outright. What they try to create with the serve is an advantage to get a weak return to kill. As a receiver the hard part is to calculate the amount of spin.
      Right. Liang really fought hard.

    25. Top | #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by tt chats View Post
      Right. Liang really fought hard.
      What?

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