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    Thread: Timing in TT

    1. Top | #1
      Wister is offline
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      Timing in TT

      Hello

      Lately i try to improve my timing but i'm a bit wondering what are the correct ones. I can't find any source on internet about it except from emratthich here : https://pingsunday.com/optimal-timin...is-tricks-win/

      Even with it it's not fully clear

      1/ FH topspin near : I'm very surprised he says timing '4-5' for topspin near the table, i would i think it is more '3-4', same as BH loop. Personally i try to get the ball around the highest point, especially on weak ball
      2/ FH counterloop :About the FH counterloop, for me it's more 4-5 when it's far from the table but otherwise for me it's like the BH counter 2-3

      Also in general, we say that with the new trend we should take the ball earlier. Do you think it could be good to aims for like 2,9 timing (slightly before highest) for FH topspin and BH topspin or just 3,5 is already enough (just a bit after the peak). Or should it be as ERT explains with really waiting the ball to fall with timing 4-5 ?

      Here i put a summary about what he says (he have a table at the end of the article, i added the one about BH loop because it wasn't there)


      Drop shot 1--2
      BH push 3 You should push the ball early, near it's highest
      BH flip 2--3
      Block 2--3
      Backhand loop 3--4 Hit just after the highest position
      Backhand counterloop 2--3 Hit the ball before the highest position
      FH topspin near 4--5 After the highest position
      FH counter loop 4--5 After the highest position
      FH topspin far 4,5--5
      FH loop backspin ball 3--4 Hit at it's highest position
      FH loop heavy BS 3--4 After the highest bounce
      Chopping >5


      *1 : Just bounce ; 2: Rising : 3 : Highest ; 4 : Descending ; 5 : Has fallen down a lot

    2. Top | #2
      Lula is offline
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      I think it is more important to focus on where the timing should be using the body as a starting point.

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      yogi_bear is offline
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      I only use 3 types of timing to teach:
      1. Early or on the rise - when the ball is hit after it immediately bounce off from the tabke and has not reached the highest part of its bounce.
      2. Peak - hitting the ball when at its highest part if the bounce.
      3. Late or after peak - when hitting the ball after it begins to come down.
      These are the only basic timing you need to learn when hitting the ball at any stroke.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Lula View Post
      I think it is more important to focus on where the timing should be using the body as a starting point.
      Care to elaborate on this?

    7. Top | #5
      Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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      ERT is correct. It is good advice.

      another important thing:
      for example when i do BH in a rally, I think the #1 important thing is to hit the ball at the same place in your hitzone. But the incoming ball is sometimes very long, sometimes shallower. It means that the timing will be DIFFERENT. (unless you keep on adjusting making little steps in and out but thats very difficult and sub-optimal)
      if the ball comes long, then it means you will take the ball much earlier, perhaps quickly very near the bounce (unless you are already one step away from the table) and you need to make a quick stroke with a closed bat angle.
      If the ball is slower shallower, you will take it when the ball is maybe in phase 5 , descending, so you need to wait for the ball to get in your hitzone, it will be lower, so for example you need to lower you body a lot, and go for a slow loop (for the easiest shot)

      for all the shots above the table, to take the ball early, its of course possible only if you step to the ball (with right leg below the table). Thats a main requirement to executing all those shots.

    8. Top | #6
      NextLevel is offline
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      When it comes to pushing, backspin tends to float so the timing that ERT gives is mostly correct but not a law. When it comes to looping, you just practice until you find your preferred timing and contact points. Any such rules will vary depending on the level of spin especially if you are closer to the table.
      Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

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    10. Top | #7
      Lula is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by whocarez View Post
      Care to elaborate on this?
      Do not have time now so will keep it short.

      When you play bh you want to hit by the belly and pretty close to the body.
      When you play fh you want to hit the ball at the side and infront of you, almost creating a triangle with your hit arms and feet. I think some call this the golden triangle.

      Many of my players take the ball to early, so they reach for the ball with their arm when doing bh och fh strokes. By doing this they do not get any power or spin because the arm is already used. Try punching someone with an already extended arm. Same thing. Also hard to rotate with the body while doing fh loop if you hit to much infront.

      Some people also take the ball to far away with the forehand so they hit the ball almost behind them, then they can not use the body well and do not have good control.

      I think this is the most important stuff.

      Also worth mentioning that if you block or play soft shots i think you should take the ball earlier before it bounces up. Blocking soft and high is not good. Blocking soft and low is better. And take the ball at the highest point when you want to play harder.

      Most important thing about timing is that you need to explode when you contact the ball. Many people believe that longer strokes will give them more power and i think this is wrong. Can have a really short stroke, as long as you are explosive at the contact and then stop the motion. If you do not stop the power goes away, but important to relax again after this.

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    12. Top | #8
      RidTheKid is offline
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      Good post, should also be a sticky at the start page.

      Quote Originally Posted by Lula View Post
      Do not have time now so will keep it short.

      When you play bh you want to hit by the belly and pretty close to the body.
      When you play fh you want to hit the ball at the side and infront of you, almost creating a triangle with your hit arms and feet. I think some call this the golden triangle.

      Many of my players take the ball to early, so they reach for the ball with their arm when doing bh och fh strokes. By doing this they do not get any power or spin because the arm is already used. Try punching someone with an already extended arm. Same thing. Also hard to rotate with the body while doing fh loop if you hit to much infront.

      Some people also take the ball to far away with the forehand so they hit the ball almost behind them, then they can not use the body well and do not have good control.

      I think this is the most important stuff.

      Also worth mentioning that if you block or play soft shots i think you should take the ball earlier before it bounces up. Blocking soft and high is not good. Blocking soft and low is better. And take the ball at the highest point when you want to play harder.

      Most important thing about timing is that you need to explode when you contact the ball. Many people believe that longer strokes will give them more power and i think this is wrong. Can have a really short stroke, as long as you are explosive at the contact and then stop the motion. If you do not stop the power goes away, but important to relax again after this.

    13. Top | #9
      whocarez is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lula View Post
      Do not have time now so will keep it short.
      Really well explained and I totally agree. Thank you for this!

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      I think Waldner once said that you need to master all types of timing for all types of shots in all distances.

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      Wister is offline
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      Thanks for all your answers

      Something that is still bothering me a bit is with the FH loop. For me the 4-5 timing is for consistency and the rallies but i feel like the loop kill should be done sooner, near the top of the bounce (3). Like that it's more natural to brush the ball with a very horizontal bat and go very strongly. Because it seems to me that with the 4-5 timing is more natural to have a diagonal brush, less direct

      An example of what i mean is here with paul Drinkhall saying he hits earlier : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRLTmazK7n4

      What is your timing for loop kill ?

    16. Top | #12
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      Looping the ball with on the rise timing requires practice but yields good results because it is faster as a ball return giving your opponents lesser time to react. It takes skills and ball contact to master. It is also very risky. I usually teach late contact first to develop good ball feel and brush.

    17. Top | #13
      Lula is offline
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      Have a hard time seeing how you could loop really hard before or after the top of the bounce. The lower the ball is the more arc do you need to get the ball over the net. To get an arc you need spin. To much spin is slow and when the ball have to go up and then down you also can not play really hard.

      I think the highest point would be best because then you do not need so much arc and can loop a little flatter and therefore harder and it is easier to kill the point.

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