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  1. Mazinho is offline
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    #1

    Confusion in the last point | Final Austrian Bundesliga 2018/2019

    Does anyone know what happened here?


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    #2
    Can't tell from video

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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazinho
    Does anyone know what happened here?
    Here's my speculation: I think that blue player's teammate(s) behind him, and off camera to the left, did some sort of unsportsmanlike distraction during the serve - coordinated with the look-away serve (also clearly illegal - body blocking the red player's view, but I don't think that was called). Look at the red players reaction and pointing to the bench behind the blue player. Then the ref looks over there and changes the call. So this was a planned cheap shot to win a point. Blue guy is obviously a jerk in any case.

    If someone can translate the German, that might give more clues.

    A mystery!
    Last edited by ttopy; 05-26-2019 at 06:32 PM.

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    #4
    Umpire's reaction is priceless...

    I think he felt threatened and decided it's in his best interest(to leave the place in 1 piece) to overturn his own decision.
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    #5
    Could it be illegal serve? His right arm blocking opponents view of the ball.

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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by rogerino75
    Could it be illegal serve? His right arm blocking opponents view of the ball.
    If you go frame by frame, his arm is clear by the time he contacts the ball, but clearly his body is blocking view of the contact for the red player.

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    #7
    It wasn't about hiding the ball due to the reactions. Or they just disqualified him. Really not sure. Don't see what was wrong either. He aced on match point. Can't see a potential distraction.

    Edit: just rewatched it's definitely disqualification but no doubt that's controversial because it looked over.
    Last edited by FruitLoop; 05-26-2019 at 06:40 PM.

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    #8
    david is international player so he should be more professional at all, for me ace and win match, bad decision from referees

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    #9
    no look shot by Waldner is the same type of shot
    so if you judge someone you must think twice

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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ttopy
    Here's my speculation: I think that blue player's teammate(s) behind him, and off camera to the left, did some sort of unsportsmanlike distraction during the serve - coordinated with the look-away serve (also clearly illegal - body blocking the red player's view, but I don't think that was called). Look at the red players reaction and pointing to the bench behind the blue player. Then the ref looks over there and changes the call. So this was a planned cheap shot to win a point. Blue guy is obviously a jerk in any case.

    If someone can translate the German, that might give more clues.

    A mystery!
    I think you are right. Something is deffo happening behind the camera.

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    #11
    Complete match:

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    #12
    The referee call a service mistake from the camera angle.

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    #13
    Posts this on a fb forum. A Guy had A video from another angle and Said it was the highest umpire that faulted the serve. But another Guy say that that is not his job. What is correct?

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    #14
    He should have been disqualified for that celebration anyway. That was really disgraceful.


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    #15
    https://www.ttbundesliga.at/berichte...ag-froschberg/

    Dieser endete leider mit einer Disqualifikation von David Serdaroglu. Nachdem sein Service zum vermeintlichen 11:9 im entscheidenden fünften Satz aufgrund eines Servicefehler aberkannt wurde, wurde ihm wegen Schiedsrichterkritik die rote Karte gezeigt.

    Unfortunately this ended with a disqualification of David Serdaroglu. After his service was denied to the alleged 11:9 in the decisive fifth set due to a service mistake, he was shown the red card because of referee criticism.

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    #16
    What was the service mistake?

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    #17
    Blocking the receiver’s view of the ball with his body

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    #18
    That's an interestingly weird decision.
    It was a good serve both from my pov and, more importantly, the umpire.
    The referee must have said something off camera for the umpire to change his decision. Also the opponent pointed off-camera. He may have been pointing to the referee.
    As I said, weird.
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    #19
    Whatever the situation is, the way that guy went full retard on celebration annoys me.

    Never go full retard.

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    #20
    Ok, I watched the whole match, and this is what I found: TL,DR version: Blue player (David Serdaroglu) was doing hidden serves so illegal they were being called (including by the ref off screen on the final point). He lost 8 points total in the match. Went ballistic more than once. Red carded after his final tantrum.

    ====================

    Why am I interested? I'd very much like to see the rules either followed by the refs, or rewritten to be consistent with what is actually called in matches. E.g. Even though blue guy only lost 8 points to illegal serves, he is clearly in violation of this rule on every service:

    2.6.5 As soon as the ball has been projected, the server’s free arm and hand shall be removed from the space between the ball and the net.

    He's pulling the arm away at the last moment every time. Also I wanted to see if my speculations above were right [partially].

    Detailed narrative of the match (this is the TL part :

    Very first point, and the red player is warned for his service - I believe warned for a non-vertical toss, which, imo is ridiculous: compared to _many_ serve tosses in the ITTF it was extremely vertical. Perhaps the refs knew there were going to be legal service problems in this match.

    Blue player warned here in the second game:
    https://youtu.be/yOPlwYWTrEQ?t=106
    Ref indicates the arm was not moved out quickly enough (I think). And we can see that the 'look-away' execution of the serve is his normal motion - so that wasn't a special thing he did on match point [so I was wrong in my speculation above].

    Illegal serve called here - first point awarded:
    https://youtu.be/yOPlwYWTrEQ?t=139

    Later that game, red player complaining about illegal serve here - not called:
    https://youtu.be/yOPlwYWTrEQ?t=197

    This one is identical to his last serve in the match - not called:
    https://youtu.be/yOPlwYWTrEQ?t=215
    and the red player complains and starts talking to the ref off screen to the left.
    Keep watching the next point, and you can hear the ref off screen say "stop" on the let serve and awards the point to Red. I think the off screen ref is the heavy set guy in the suit and blue shirt we see at times. Long "discussion" about the serve, and probably the ref making that call from off court (I don't know the rules of that league, but it is a valid question). The match almost ends here I think. Blue deserved a yellow card.
    Video editor speeds things up here - minutes pass for sure.

    Another repeat here:
    https://youtu.be/yOPlwYWTrEQ?t=436
    Red player complaining he can't see the contact - [I agree btw - and clearly it's not the arm on this serve, but the body blocking the view].
    Next point - same thing - hidden serve for an ace this time. You can see the red player not even reacting because he can't see the contact.

    Here they correctly call it (but this time it is the arm too blocking the view):
    https://youtu.be/yOPlwYWTrEQ?t=491

    Another illegal serve called here:
    https://youtu.be/yOPlwYWTrEQ?t=576
    The next serve is _almost_ identical, yet somehow not called.

    Another clearly illegal serve, but not called:
    https://youtu.be/yOPlwYWTrEQ?t=605

    This one is called:
    https://youtu.be/yOPlwYWTrEQ?t=686
    You can hear the red player as he comes toward the camera, saying "This is incredible. I don't see nothing." Meaning he can't see the contact at all.

    Late in the 5th game, another one called here:
    https://youtu.be/yOPlwYWTrEQ?t=738
    Again the video editor speeds things up. Blue guy throws his racquet on the table, into the net. Eventually gets a yellow card.

    Another not called here to get him to match point 10-9:
    https://youtu.be/yOPlwYWTrEQ?t=788

    Then the last illegal serve:
    https://youtu.be/yOPlwYWTrEQ?t=795
    We hear the off screen ref say "stop" (I think) as the serve hits the far end of the table. Note how the red player can't even react to this one. Blue player then goes nuts, jumps on the table [I would ban him for a while from my club for that alone], rips off shirt. Also note that the scorekeeper ref indicates his uncertainty about who should get the point - I don't think either on court refs realize the off screen has made another illegal service call. Red player is pointing at the off screen ref. Head ref on court looks over and changes the call, making it 10-10. But blue doesn't come back to play, storms around. Off screen ref comes over behind the head ref, and think tells him to give the red card because of his histrionics. End of match.

    Opinion: This all hinges on the consistent enforcement of the service rules as written - if there is any doubt the service is legal, the refs should be calling it. This guy shouldn't remotely be doing this motion in his serves. Samsonov has been doing great, non-hidden serves since hidden serves were legal - players and the sport don't need this hazy line controversy imo.

    Cheers and to anyone that read this all, I hope [you] didn't find it boring

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    Last edited by ttopy; 05-27-2019 at 09:08 PM.

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