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Yes those comments are partly modesty. But they are partly to reduce the pressure on himself. You can disagree but other coaches have pointed this out. When you respect your opponent, you don't panic when things are not going well like Ma Long used to. He is struggling with Harimoto, he respects Harimoto's game and expects a struggle. If he said "I am better than Harimoto, I should not lose to him", this creates panic when things don't go well. After the match he has go maintain the same attitude

I am speaking a bit from experience because I remember how I used to feel when in the USATT system I would lose some games to a player lower than myself by 200 pts. Then I stopped acting as if I must win because my ranking is higher. I just kept focusing on how well my opponent is playing and how well I am playing and it stopped putting pressure on me. And after the match, when I play a good shot to win. People tell me I played well, but I tell them I was fortunate and that my opponent really had me. Or that it was easier than I expected, my opponent should really have posed me more problems. It helps.with my mental stability so that good and bad times remain the same attitude wise. It sounds like modesty, and in some way it is, but it is really a way to make sure you don't pressure yourself unreasonably with stupid expectations that if they don't happen, you panic and lose. Keep the expectations reasonable and aligned with your best motivation and you will always bring your best possible game.

You may not agree but this is how i read Ma Long. You can read him differently.

Some nice mental coaching in the middle of a discussion where no one will change anybody’s way of thinking.
 
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No one can fully read Ma Long, that's why he keeps winning.

Yes those comments are partly modesty. But they are partly to reduce the pressure on himself. You can disagree but other coaches have pointed this out. When you respect your opponent, you don't panic when things are not going well like Ma Long used to. He is struggling with Harimoto, he respects Harimoto's game and expects a struggle. If he said "I am better than Harimoto, I should not lose to him", this creates panic when things don't go well. After the match he has go maintain the same attitude

I am speaking a bit from experience because I remember how I used to feel when in the USATT system I would lose some games to a player lower than myself by 200 pts. Then I stopped acting as if I must win because my ranking is higher. I just kept focusing on how well my opponent is playing and how well I am playing and it stopped putting pressure on me. And after the match, when I play a good shot to win. People tell me I played well, but I tell them I was fortunate and that my opponent really had me. Or that it was easier than I expected, my opponent should really have posed me more problems. It helps.with my mental stability so that good and bad times remain the same attitude wise. It sounds like modesty, and in some way it is, but it is really a way to make sure you don't pressure yourself unreasonably with stupid expectations that if they don't happen, you panic and lose. Keep the expectations reasonable and aligned with your best motivation and you will always bring your best possible game.

You may not agree but this is how i read Ma Long. You can read him differently.
 
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Sure, how I see ML's game doesn't matter. It is his opponent's business.
From his comeback this year, I just see many players outpowered ML and outspeeded ML(especially in earlier matches). Many players who played ML also had the mindset like his that they were prepared for a tough match and they wanted to challenge. If modesty helped ML reduce pressure, modesty didn't harm others who already showed ML respect before the match in the interviews.
What I really not see is anyone outsmarted ML, even in Asian Cup final when FZD won. HT did surprise ML. ML is still not as used to HT's games especially serves as to other top non CNT players who he played 10+ times, not to mention CNT players who are so familiar to him. But HT's FH weakness is obvious for ML to capture since 3rd game. LJK did surprise ML even caught ML's several intentions of long serves. But he was so stuck to BH-BH game like FZD did (perhaps they are most comfortable with), then ML knew what to do.
 
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Some nice mental coaching in the middle of a discussion where no one will change anybody’s way of thinking.

Thanks but it is something that Liu Guoliang talks about a lot. He blamed it for Ma Long's tightness facing Wang Hao. He even talked about how he would encourage Wang Hao to win only one match or game when Wang Hao felt tight because of the weight of performing as the World Champion. And I remember one time watching a match where Ma Long was absolutely destroying Freitas in 2015 or so and then Freitas wins a game and starts playing better but Ma Long wins it 4-1. They then asked Ma Long for comments and he said that Freitas is a top 10 player (he was at the time or very close) and that against an opponent at that level, losing a game is a reasonable result. So this "modesty" is not new, you see it in lots of the CNT players when they talk. When ZJK lost to Harimoto the first time, he said that Harimoto was too fast for him, and that he wasn't quick enough to play at that level. But that he was happy with the results because it just meant more problems to solve in training.

ML knows that just as today he is beating LGY 4-0, on a specific day, if LGY does better the score might be 4-2 like Qatar or might be a loss of subtle things are different or if LGY has a coach. Of course he knows that what he has the techniques but he also knows that you don't put stupid pressure on yourself that paralyzes you when you struggle. Even if he feels he is much better than LGY, he knows that this is not the best way to manage his competitive mindset. So I am just pointing out something I learned from watching and listening to these players.

Compare to how Harimoto felt when he lost to An Jaehyun and how he felt about his play and his losing. Yes Harimoto is younger but you could see the expectations that Harimoto had eating him up as he didn't respect An's level and refused to accept that he just had to deal with the level An had brought. After the match he blamed his play and gave no credit to the opponent. Maybe this is how Harimoto plays best or maybe it is just easier to be modest after winning. But I can give other examples even Ding Ning after losing to Ito didn't say oh, I can't believe it, she credited Ito's style and blamed her serves and management of critical points as she lost all the games by 2 point margin.

The attitude people like ML show is much deeper than modesty. But if you really think that ML doesn't know that it is possible for him to have bad days and lose to people, review the few losses he has had.
 
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Sure, how I see ML's game doesn't matter. It is his opponent's business.
From his comeback this year, I just see many players outpowered ML and outspeeded ML(especially in earlier matches). Many players who played ML also had the mindset like his that they were prepared for a tough match and they wanted to challenge. If modesty helped ML reduce pressure, modesty didn't harm others who already showed ML respect before the match in the interviews.
What I really not see is anyone outsmarted ML, even in Asian Cup final when FZD won. HT did surprise ML. ML is still not as used to HT's games especially serves as to other top non CNT players who he played 10+ times, not to mention CNT players who are so familiar to him. But HT's FH weakness is obvious for ML to capture since 3rd game. LJK did surprise ML even caught ML's several intentions of long serves. But he was so stuck to BH-BH game like FZD did (perhaps they are most comfortable with), then ML knew what to do.

I think of ML as the last penholder in the Ma Lin tradition. I don't know if anyone has the instincts to play that much forehand anymore. Even the chop blocking and backhand blocking is tied to that style. He doesn't play Chiquita as much because he still plays more for the first forehand opening not just the first opening with backhand as variation. Of course his backhand play is superior to Ma Lin.

I think his success will influence Harimoto and Fan. But I think the Koreans already generally play this way. They just don't have the ML genius yet but they might get lucky.
 
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I meant in the top upcoming tournaments...but as well as the Olympics. Individual events and women's CNT is too strong and there is slim chance for others at the moment. But for events like the mens doubles and mix doubles, other teams have a chance...even in the Olympics.

Doubles is not an Olympic event apart from the teams with one match. Mixed doubles, they didn't send their World Champion team but I agree with you, they have risk there. But if they use their best players in doubles like XX-FZD or XX-ML, it won't matter. Same for XX-LSW or if they give their DN-FZD team extensive practice.
 
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ML end game is second to none. He makes very few mistakes during the crucial points. I feel he also intimidates the opposition by the intense stare and timely "chole" . No matter what the humility displayed after the match in interviews, like all great champions he is going to overpower and crush you when it matters most.
 
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LGL already commented that ML plays shakehand with a heart of penholder. It is more about first three strokes, touch game and control style. Restrict opponent and avoid getting into topspin rallies too much, too early. Even for shakehanders, in general CNT are better at first three strokes than others, and Asians better than Europeans. So that's why CNT often praises a non CNT player especially an European plays like CNT if he has good first three strokes. And it makes sense to avoid getting into topspin rallies all the time for a shorter/less muscular player. It's interesting that ML is called topspin machine outside CNT but he is regarded physically "weak" in CNT. He just employs the most effective way to exert full body strength to make powerful FH topspin and he is better at counter loop (LGL thinks the best two at counter loop in CNT are ML and KLH). His footwork is trained to do so, which is totally different from BH oriented play. It is too late for him to change, and not necessary.

HT already played a lot of short touch games rather than banana everything in the semi. Very few rallies in the first two games, most points were done in first three strokes. That's good strategy. 1. In recent matches, LJK and FZD's powerful banana didn't work that well with ML. It worked better quick down the line or at wide angle. 2. HT is closer to table and fast in short game. He can improve his FH topspin as he is growing up physically. But similar to FZD who already has very strong FH, the BH oriented footwork is pretty much fixed, there will be a limit for the footwork to allow them to make the desired FH topspin when needed. But again, one doesn't have to be best on individual technique. It is better to master more techniques at high level and use them more strategically. It is more important to beat different players rather than beat ML (there is no such beating ML trophy).
 
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I think of ML as the last penholder in the Ma Lin tradition. I don't know if anyone has the instincts to play that much forehand anymore. Even the chop blocking and backhand blocking is tied to that style. He doesn't play Chiquita as much because he still plays more for the first forehand opening not just the first opening with backhand as variation. Of course his backhand play is superior to Ma Lin.

I think his success will influence Harimoto and Fan. But I think the Koreans already generally play this way. They just don't have the ML genius yet but they might get lucky.
100% True, almost nobody playes like ML, his FH receive is almost perfect. Nowadays playing chiquita from FH side is risky and ML knows it and cover most of table with FH and leave Little space for BH which actually is quite decent.
His game looks very simple he does not chase the Ball from BH to FH like HT or FZD, they after all have problems with middle.
 
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Is ML's bh "quite decent"? That's some understatement if I ever read one :) It's probably the best bh in the world now.


100% True, almost nobody playes like ML, his FH receive is almost perfect. Nowadays playing chiquita from FH side is risky and ML knows it and cover most of table with FH and leave Little space for BH which actually is quite decent.
His game looks very simple he does not chase the Ball from BH to FH like HT or FZD, they after all have problems with middle.
 
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Is ML's bh "quite decent"? That's some understatement if I ever read one :) It's probably the best bh in the world now.

It fits his game well, but the overall play is definitely not as dynamic as say Liang Jingkun, Harimoto, Lin Gaoyuan or Fan Zhendong. It is technically a great stroke but I would t call it the best or the overall play better than those 4. And I haven't gotten to the true backhand specialists like Calderano or Pitchford or Olah (probably missing the Falcks etc as well).
 
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It fits his game well, but the overall play is definitely not as dynamic as say Liang Jingkun, Harimoto, Lin Gaoyuan or Fan Zhendong. It is technically a great stroke but I would t call it the best or the overall play better than those 4. And I haven't gotten to the true backhand specialists like Calderano or Pitchford or Olah (probably missing the Falcks etc as well).
One of the reason that ML beats all the above mentioned players consistently is because his overall play (both forehand/backhand/transitions etc) is much more dynamic and solid compared to the other players. Now if there was a tournament where one would have to use only their backhand, maybe the so called specialists would win...but alas, we don't have such tournaments.
 
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Is ML's bh "quite decent"? That's some understatement if I ever read one :) It's probably the best bh in the world now.
If he had Best BH he would use it more. How many times you saw him playing BH topspin from heavy underspin shot like FZD or even ZJK. He is FH orientated player like XX the difference is that XX is trying to find FH everywhere while ML is covering 75% of table. Decent maybe is not the best Word but definitey much better then Best in the world.
 
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One of the reason that ML beats all the above mentioned players consistently is because his overall play (both forehand/backhand/transitions etc) is much more dynamic and solid compared to the other players. Now if there was a tournament where one would have to use only their backhand, maybe the so called specialists would win...but alas, we don't have such tournaments.

You forget that he is also 7 to 14 years older than these players. We pick the reasons we want to focus on.

More seriously, I think ML has one of the best backhand strokes in the world. My point is that backhand stroke is not backhand play. Others may differ. Your point is not different from mine unless you mean something else.
 
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If he had Best BH he would use it more. How many times you saw him playing BH topspin from heavy underspin shot like FZD or even ZJK. He is FH orientated player like XX the difference is that XX is trying to find FH everywhere while ML is covering 75% of table. Decent maybe is not the best Word but definitey much better then Best in the world.

He has the best everything in the world, he just is so good at everything that he uses everything.

Signed ‐ ML FANBOI.
 
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It fits his game well, but the overall play is definitely not as dynamic as say Liang Jingkun, Harimoto, Lin Gaoyuan or Fan Zhendong. It is technically a great stroke but I would t call it the best or the overall play better than those 4. And I haven't gotten to the true backhand specialists like Calderano or Pitchford or Olah (probably missing the Falcks etc as well).

Dima!
 
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If Ma Long had the best backhand and the best forehand in the world it is likely no one would be able to win a single set off him. It's just very unlikely to be true.

When you have players who are better in multiple major facets they dominate to stupid degrees.

For example if someone was the best driver, best short game player and best putter on tour he would win every golf tournament in the PGA calendar, no one would be able to get hot enough to win for even a single weekend. But that doesn't happen in reality. In reality even having two top 10 assets of the most major ones makes you the best golfer in the world. This is statistically close to a fact and due to golf's nature where it's player vs course we can verify this.

Meanwhile table tennis is different of course and is a head to head sport so the same analysis isn't possible, but similar things would apply in principle imo. If Ma Long had the best serve, receive, forehand and backhand in the world my guess is he would go years without losing a set.
 
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If Ma Long had the best backhand and the best forehand in the world it is likely no one would be able to win a single set off him.

Mmmmm. Don't think so. You still need to be permanently poised properly, in place, to hit that best backhand. You need fluid FH/BH transitions too. And beyond a certain level, it doesn't matter how good your stroke is. Your choice in placement, speed, depth, spin might matter even more than your single stroke pressure quality.

FWIW, I think ML is a solid player without any deficiencies or explicit weaknessess (like Waldner before him), who in the end trumps the opponents by tactical superiority. I do admire that ripping counterloop, but it's setting up the game up to the point that it gets deployed that matters. The true beauty is in the setup, but is maybe harder to see in its full glory.

I've never seen anybody shut ML down. Ever. I've seen him loose, on occasion, and on these occasions I did notice that his opponents managed to avoid ML shutting their game down and got to play their strengths.
 
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