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    #481
    It saves a lot of manpower.

    IIRC, the JTTA have already started collecting stats using AI since London Olympics. They have fed thousands of match recordings through the algorithm for post-analysis. Miyasaki was surprised to find out Harimoto never served a single reverse pendulum. He then advised Harimoto on that, saying he might never realized that if it were not for the system.

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    Last edited by zeio; 06-03-2019 at 03:24 PM.
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    #482
    Complaining about the CNT dominance is the equivalent of complaining about Tiger or Fedex in their prime. It is not boring to watch greatness at all. I feel people tend to watch a sport when there is a dominant team/person who crushes their opponent every time when it matters. After Tiger was injured/out of golf, many viewers, especially the non-golf playing viewers were not much interested in watching golf anymore.

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    #483
    Quote Originally Posted by will_999
    Complaining about the CNT dominance is the equivalent of complaining about Tiger or Fedex in their prime. It is not boring to watch greatness at all. I feel people tend to watch a sport when there is a dominant team/person who crushes their opponent every time when it matters. After Tiger was injured/out of golf, many viewers, especially the non-golf playing viewers were not much interested in watching golf anymore.
    Not so sure. But I suspect at times that people with an inability to empathize often enjoy denigrating the views of others who disagree with them. Some people just like more diversity of winners. Some people like a dominant champion. Some people realize that sports are not invested in in many countries if there is little hope of getting a medal. In some countries, increased participation in a sport is a result of someone leading the way.

    So no, don't mix up the issue of national domination of a sport where many individuals from one country take all the top spots in the podium with the issue of a very dominant individual. The people aren't complaining that Ma Long is winning. They are complaining about China ON China finals. Whatever you feel about that, get the argument right.

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    #484
    Maybe so...but with all respect, it is not my job to empathize why other countries cannot produce the same level of players like the CNT. I will always cheer for whoever is the best in that sport...be it ML or soon to be champ, Harimoto. China ON China finals are some of the best quality games I have seen. When you have two players technically at their peak, the level of play is simply more amazing when you consider the number of rallies, quality of returns etc. At this point, I would rather watch a ML/FZD final or a Federer/Djokovic/Nadal final rather than Wavrinka battling Murray

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    #485
    Domination can be dealt with if it is from an individual. ML will be gone in the next few years. At national level it is completely different because it is much harder as we have seen with many other different sports not just TT.

    However, TT domination from China is just terrifying. It is probably the most dominating sport that a nation could have that the world has ever seen. At the Beijing Olympics in 2008, six medals were given out for singles table tennis, three for men and three for women. China won all six! That forced Olympics committee to change rule; i.e. only 2 players per nation, instead of 3. Then in 2012, with only two men and two women, China won two golds and two silvers. In Rio 2016 China won all gold in men and women individual or team events. US's basketball domination is also terrible but it is a team sport so the US teams can only win 2 possible medals for men and women events.

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    #486
    Team China lost in the Mens doubles (world champions) as well as the mix doubles. So in these two events, I don't think they are the outright favorites in Tokyo. Given his performance against ML, I feel HT could take down anyone on CNT if they are not playing their A game. Dima nearly beat LGY.. I feel other than ML and FZD, the other CNT members are not that consistent. There is a slight opening here, with HT being the prime threat. As for the womens...well good luck rest of the world trying to beat Chen Meng or getting to the finals for a long time

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    #487
    Quote Originally Posted by zeio
    Well, where the stats fail to show is that WH was already, in his own word, half-retired at the National Games 2013. Basically, all his records after WTTC 2013 didn't really mean much, but as you know fan_____ don't care about that.

    I thought RSM is Chinese? I might've picked up the habit from watching too much of this.

    'picks the mic back up-
    I love it when people give Wang Hao this type of excuse or ZJK the excuse of having won 'everything' (or everything 'important') so what's the point of even trying, just go into retirement and enjoy the celebrity lifestyle with game shows and whatnot... but it's 2019 and Ma Long just won another World Champs and China Open.

    But wait, it's cause his main opponents either retired or are partly retired and living the celebrity lifestyle with game shows and whatnot ... and this is Ma Long's fault, obviously that they lost the drive to compete and are basically retired or half retired. This is indeed Ma Long's fault that his opponents are not nearly as competitive as he is or have the same longevity as he does...

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    #488
    Quote Originally Posted by will_999
    Maybe so...but with all respect, it is not my job to empathize why other countries cannot produce the same level of players like the CNT. I will always cheer for whoever is the best in that sport...be it ML or soon to be champ, Harimoto. China ON China finals are some of the best quality games I have seen. When you have two players technically at their peak, the level of play is simply more amazing when you consider the number of rallies, quality of returns etc. At this point, I would rather watch a ML/FZD final or a Federer/Djokovic/Nadal final rather than Wavrinka battling Murray
    Again, missing the point but that is okay. It is a good thinks it is not your job because if you don't understand what motivates people, you will do a bad job managing interests. I love watching good table tennis. But many countries only invest in sports when they think they will win medals. As tropical pointed out, the teams competition in the Olympics was a deliberate decision instead of keeping doubles as a separate event. You have to sometimes understand what the economic factors driving a decision are before you pretend that your opinion is the only thing that matters. Plenty of the TT investment in countries is driven by regional and local success. Bronze medals count for something. And even China acts in it's own interests by sending coaches to other countries to build programs. You have to look beyond what you like when you want to think about the sport. You may or may not be the target of the policy.
    Last edited by NextLevel; 06-03-2019 at 09:38 PM.
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    #489
    Quote Originally Posted by will_999
    Team China lost in the Mens doubles (world champions) as well as the mix doubles. So in these two events, I don't think they are the outright favorites in Tokyo. Given his performance against ML, I feel HT could take down anyone on CNT if they are not playing their A game. Dima nearly beat LGY.. I feel other than ML and FZD, the other CNT members are not that consistent. There is a slight opening here, with HT being the prime threat. As for the womens...well good luck rest of the world trying to beat Chen Meng or getting to the finals for a long time
    You mean in the China Open, right? Not the Olympics right?
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    #490
    Quote Originally Posted by zeio
    In terms of Standard Mandarin, Ishikawa is the best. Fukuhara speaks the Northeastern variant at near-native level. Harimoto speaks with a little Sichuan accent, as pointed out by those from Sichuan.

    But yeh, Harimoto still has trouble coming up with the right words from time to time, though he has gotten better compared to last year. He understands the questions better and is more eloquent now. He literally spoke in phrases more than sentences last year.
    I thought he was raised bilingual is this not the case? His parents are ethnic Chinese no?

  11. zeio is offline
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    #491
    Some of my ABC cousins can hardly listen/speak and absolutely not read/write Chinese despite being raised in a bilingual environment. The problem is they don't get to use it much in daily life.

    Harimoto will get better given the more exposure he has now. He's literally surrounded by Chinese here, from teacher(Geng Yao) to coach(Zhao Weijing). That's how Fukuhara and Ishikawa learned.
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    #492
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel
    You mean in the China Open, right? Not the Olympics right?
    He means in the Hong Kong Open, right? Not the Olympics right?
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  13. zeio is offline
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    #493
    Quote Originally Posted by aerial
    'picks the mic back up-
    I love it when people give Wang Hao this type of excuse or ZJK the excuse of having won 'everything' (or everything 'important') so what's the point of even trying, just go into retirement and enjoy the celebrity lifestyle with game shows and whatnot... but it's 2019 and Ma Long just won another World Champs and China Open.

    But wait, it's cause his main opponents either retired or are partly retired and living the celebrity lifestyle with game shows and whatnot ... and this is Ma Long's fault, obviously that they lost the drive to compete and are basically retired or half retired. This is indeed Ma Long's fault that his opponents are not nearly as competitive as he is or have the same longevity as he does...
    Yeh, it's just like how ML fans always play down his results before 2015, saying he had not peaked then. OMG. I mean, feel free to knock yourself out.

    In much the same way ZJK didn't meet ML to clinch his 2 WTTC titles and 1 World Cup, ML didn't meet WH to clinch his 3 WTTC titles and 2 World Cups. But oh, I'm sorry he had his chances.
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    #494
    You don't seem to like ML very much? Why, did he beat you with his left hand? I think you estimate WH too highly, where does WH rank on all time winnings list? I never see his name mentioned outside of WTTC wins. Anyway, how come your English is so good? Impressed how fluently you use it. You're better than most who has it as native tongue.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeio
    Yeh, it's just like how ML fans always play down his results before 2015, saying he had not peaked then. OMG. I mean, feel free to knock yourself out.

    In much the same way ZJK didn't meet ML to clinch his 2 WTTC titles and 1 World Cup, ML didn't meet WH to clinch his 3 WTTC titles and 2 World Cups. But oh, I'm sorry he had his chances.

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    #495
    I wouldn't have spent time on ML's interviews in my youtube channel if I didn't. I wouldn't have spent time on Ishikawa's interviews if I didn't. I wouldn't have spent time on subbing all these interviews to keep the West posted if I didn't want table tennis to get more respect.

    The thing is table tennis is already a niche sport. I'm tired of people trying to make it only about 1 player and everyone else irrelevant, disregarding their legacies and contributions to the sport. It saddens me how little the West knows and shows next to no respect to the golden generation of European table tennis.

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    #496
    All CNT finals are great. Great in a technical excellency way. I'm always amazed at how good a human can be, CNT basicaly transcend table tennis.

    Having said that, it's been a while since I watched all CNT finals live. It's just so repetitive. For so long. I'd rather spend time watching netflix or doing my woodworking project after Ito/Harimoto/Mizutani fall in QFs yet again. It's other nation's fault for not being competitive though. But for me, it just doesn't provoke my interest anymore. I also like the current state of world rugby where ABs are beaten more frequently now.

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    #497
    Quote Originally Posted by Janard
    I wonder if there is anywhere on the ITTF website that shows the full World Tour titles tally for all players?
    I only found this here.

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    #498
    I see. But by the "West" you mean which countries really? Us Swedes know full well the history of great TT, and I think that also goes for many other European countries as well.

    If we discuss present time it's impossible not to mention ML's accomplishments, how do you suppose a person passionate about TT is gonna go about discussing TT without ML come up? WHY should that subject even be avoided? People generally want to watch the best players play, certainly ML will come up every time.

    You wanna discuss more about what made Grubba such a good player? That Appelgren is like JO's big brother? You can discuss whatever you want, but to me it's more like you comment and/or fill in on happenings than starting new topics. And believe me, I appreciate your contribution as it is, but you can't complain (if that's what it is) if you don't lead the way

    Quote Originally Posted by zeio
    I wouldn't have spent time on ML's interviews in my youtube channel if I didn't. I wouldn't have spent time on Ishikawa's interviews if I didn't. I wouldn't have spent time on subbing all these interviews to keep the West posted if I didn't want table tennis to get more respect.

    The thing is table tennis is already a niche sport. I'm tired of people trying to make it only about 1 player and everyone else irrelevant, disregarding their legacies and contributions to the sport. It saddens me how little the West knows and shows next to no respect to the golden generation of European table tennis.

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  19. zeio is offline
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    #499
    It's not about not mentioning ML's accomplishments. That's so superficial. It's more than just stats. It's about how people fail to see from the perspective of the past and how it relates and translates to the present. Basically, most people just assume the players of today are always faster, higher and stronger than those of yesterday.

    Is that really the case?

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    #500
    Quote Originally Posted by zeio
    I wouldn't have spent time on ML's interviews in my youtube channel if I didn't. I wouldn't have spent time on Ishikawa's interviews if I didn't. I wouldn't have spent time on subbing all these interviews to keep the West posted if I didn't want table tennis to get more respect.

    The thing is table tennis is already a niche sport. I'm tired of people trying to make it only about 1 player and everyone else irrelevant, disregarding their legacies and contributions to the sport. It saddens me how little the West knows and shows next to no respect to the golden generation of European table tennis.
    I can assure you that "west" knows about that generation you talk about. It's not that they don't "show respect", it's that this generation is not winning. Every casual fan of any sport, from football to table tennis, is only going to know guys who are winning. And the people winning now are chinese. People make it about 1 player because this player is WINNING.... a lot. Simple as that.

    I can give you an example from other sport : Lev Yashin, a goalkeeper from Russia (back then USSR). Only goalkeeper in history to win Golden Ball. Ever. I'd say that he contributed to the sport of football, especially for goalkeepers, but does anyone who isn't a diehard football fan know him ?

    People who play table tennis from "west", especially from countries with table tennis history, such as Hungary, England, France, Germany, Poland, etc. know those players. But casual fans will probably care only about winners.

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