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    1. Top | #21
      zeio is offline
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      Found a paper from 2005 by Boeing testing the Zylon - http://www.tc.faa.gov/its/worldpac/t.../AR04-45P3.pdf

      The Zylon sample lost 10% of tensile strength after being stored in a dark closed container(but not hermetically sealed) at room temperature(70F/21C) for 1 year.

      That essentially renders it weaker than Vectran.
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    2. Top | #22
      Baal is online now
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      I don't think the zylon fiber has to be fully intact to confer its desired effect on TT blades, which is to absorb high frequency vibrations. So this is not something I would worry about. A practice partner of mine has used the same ZJK ZLC since they first came out.

    3. Top | #23
      zeio is offline
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      Zylon doesn't really dampen vibrations. Only Vectran and now Zxion do, and they dampen both low and high frequencies. There is a JTTA study that shows Zylon behaves really close to all-wood.

    4. Top | #24
      lodro is online now
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      i do not think it would degrade if the zylon has been properly saturated with epoxy.

      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      You may keep the light and moisture out, but the heat will still cause it to degrade, albeit at a much slower rate. Long-term storage in the southern hemisphere becomes a problem.

    5. Top | #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      Zylon doesn't really dampen vibrations. Only Vectran and now Zxion do, and they dampen both low and high frequencies. There is a JTTA study that shows Zylon behaves really close to all-wood.
      Citation please.

    6. Top | #26
      trumpet_guy is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      Even Yamaha loudspeaker using Zylon for the driver comes coated with something called Monel alloy to protect it from the ultraviolet ray.

      That's why I've always stayed away from Zylon. Other than Carbon fiber, Vectran is the only other fiber that has stood the test of time.
      Just a side note: Monel is also used to make the piston valves in some professional trumpets. I am not certain which properties lead to its use, but I do know that moisture from breath leads to corrosion inside the tubing of brass instruments. Nickel is also used instead of Monel in some instruments. OK, back to TT blades now.

      —Tim
      Last edited by trumpet_guy; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:21 PM. Reason: Typo

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    8. Top | #27
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto View Post
      Whether you seal or not it won't change your blade overnight. If that is your daily driver, I doubt one will notice. Just enjoy what you like. If a blade is ZLC but after 5-10 years it deteriorates so much, that you don't like it anymore. It's still great value/time/enjoyment, even if the blade costs 200€. (buying a 200€ blade every 5 years does not sound bad...)
      Yep. I fully agree with this. And it is totally possible that the change in the Zylon could make the blade feel/play better anyway. So, it is not something one should be worrying about.
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    10. Top | #28
      zeio is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by lodro View Post
      i do not think it would degrade if the zylon has been properly saturated with epoxy.
      Read the study linked. They sealed the sample from light and moisture, and heat alone still caused a 4% degradation on tensile strength after 210 days at 55C.

      That is concerning as the condition my blades are stored in could reach upwards of 35C during summer. The cost of keeping the AC on all day could go into getting a new one, but now I wonder how the retailers and distributors store them and even the conditions of the shipment in containers.

      Another example. Flight carriers have to store planes in deserts to avoid humidity, more so because of COVID-19. The dry heat could still cause damage.

      https://www.traveller.com.au/airline...-planes-h1musj
      What happens to aircraft when they're grounded?

      Storage protocols differ, depending on whether it's short or long-term. Long-term storage might require the engine to be sealed and fitted with moisture-absorbing desiccant pouches, while many aircraft in for the short-term might have their engines started once a week and left at idle to disperse any moisture and to activate flight computers and the auxiliary power units.

      Some aircraft are moved from time to time to avoid tyres flat-spotting. In the deserts where the airparks are located summer daytime temperatures can soar to over 40 degrees. Inside a metal aircraft fuselage the temperature can be much hotter, and doors are sometimes left open to allow air to circulate and prevent damage to the cabin. The Boeing manual requires flaps, rudder and other control services to be exercised every 90 days.
      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-...rings/12189856
      "The humidity of Singapore [would be] a real problem for what are composite and aluminium aeroplanes," Mr Hansford said.
      https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...gapore-list-10
      The hot, humid climate in both Hong Kong and Singapore is unsuitable for long-term storage because of the risk of corrosion to aircraft parts.
      Last edited by zeio; 4 Weeks Ago at 07:14 AM.

    11. Top | #29
      zeio is offline
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      Vibration Characteristics By A Combination OfTable Tennis Rackets And Rubbers
      Kai Murakami, Yukihiko Ushiyama, Kei Kamijima



    12. Top | #30
      zeio is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by trumpet_guy View Post
      Just a side note: Monel is also used to make the piston valves in some professional trumpets. I am not certain which properties lead to its use, but I do know that moisture from breath leads to corrosion inside the tubing of brass instruments. Nickel is also used instead of Monel in some instruments. OK, back to TT blades now.

      —Tim
      Nice to know.

      In various reviews, the degradation of Zylon is stated as the reason for the Monel coating. Even Toyobo states Zylon must be covered from light source and kept away from humidity.

      http://pro-review.site/2018/04/05/ya...s-review-test/
      https://review.u-audio.com.tw/review...?reviewid=1295

    13. Top | #31
      langel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      Read the study linked. They sealed the sample from light and moisture, and heat alone still caused a 4% degradation on tensile strength after 210 days at 55C.
      Ok, but I don't think that 4%, or even 30% degradation on tensile strength, would be ever sensible in TT blade performance. In bulletproof equipment - yes, and that's why they stopped producing bulletproof equipment with Zylon.

      But, as I said earlier in the thread, Zylon is used even in Formula 1, aimed to safe life, and it does.

      https://en.as.com/en/2016/03/21/foot...0of%20crashes.

      So why should we bother about some hypothetical degradations we most probably would never feel anyway?

      After 4 years of use I don't feel any change in my ZLC blades.

    14. Top | #32
      zeio is offline
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      The pros can go through blades like toilet papers. I can't. The thought of Zylon weakening to less than Vectran a few years down the road...

      A few years back there was an incident where the Zylon tether was deemed unsafe because it was cut and isn't covered.

      https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/t...930103/930103/

    15. Top | #33
      lodro is online now
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      Yep, whatever has been said about Zylon deterioration in aircraft and yachts and open ended ropes etc might well be true but I stick to my previous statement that all this becomes completely irrelevant once the layer of Z has been perfectly sealed and covered by "sandwiching " it between wood etc.

      .........................and as a genuine EJ i am proud to be able to say " After all it is just another blade - so who gives a %*##%$

    16. Top | #34
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      One more reason to buy another ZLC blade after a year, just to be sure if it’s 5% degraded during those 55 celcius summer days...

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    18. Top | #35
      zeio is offline
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      I will refer them to your post when people complain about the longevity of Tensors. What's 10% when I could work with a 59-month-old Hexer HD?

      After all, hard-headed engineer has told us off repeatedly:



    19. Top | #36
      Kuba Hajto is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      I will refer them to your post when people complain about the longevity of Tensors. What's 10% when I could work with a 59-month-old Hexer HD?

      After all, hard-headed engineer has told us off repeatedly:


      Do still use that hexer?

      PS: Do you do these quotes by hand or do you use a generator?
      Last edited by Kuba Hajto; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:10 AM.
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    20. Top | #37
      Baal is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      Vibration Characteristics By A Combination OfTable Tennis Rackets And Rubbers
      Kai Murakami, Yukihiko Ushiyama, Kei Kamijima


      Bad experimental design. Should have compared TB-ALC to TB-ZLC.

      I find this comparison every unconvincing. Also, no information on error in their measurements.

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