• Join our newsletter: 
  • Welcome Guest


    Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
    Results 41 to 60 of 68
    1. Top | #41
      FruitLoop is offline
      says Looping
       
      Senior TTD Member Country: Europe
      FruitLoop's Avatar
      Equipment:
      Blade Butterfly Tomokazu Harimoto Innerforce ALC
      Forehand Rubber Butterfly Dignics 05
      Backhand Rubber Butterfly Dignics 05

      Join Date
      Sep 2018
      Posts
      840
      Reviews
      Read 0 Reviews
      Liked 535 Times in 328 Posts
      Quote Originally Posted by perham View Post
      Good advice all-round. I tried to incorporate some, but now my serve looks like a shovel serve a bit.

      https://streamable.com/15up6
      More thin contact. This is almost like a short, slow, version of a long fast serve if you get my meaning.

      Also your body moves towards the ball but then stops just before contact. Try to carry your body motion into the ball.
      Last edited by FruitLoop; 06-22-2019 at 12:08 AM.

    2. Top | #42
      NextLevel is offline
      This user has no status.
       
      Master TTD Member Country: Nigeria

      Equipment:
      Blade Stiga Carbonado 190
      Forehand Rubber Tibhar MX-K
      Backhand Rubber Tibhar MX-K

      Join Date
      Oct 2014
      Location
      Somewhere Good in the US
      Posts
      8,203
      Reviews
      Read 16 Reviews
      Liked 12,460 Times in 5,502 Posts
      Quote Originally Posted by FruitLoop View Post
      More thin contact. This is almost like a short, slow, version of a long fast serve if you get my meaning.

      Also your body moves towards the ball but then stops just before contact. Try to carry your body motion into the ball.
      Honestly let's see your serve. If you feel inclined to comment about his serving, you can hopefully demonstrate the expertise that supports your observation given the complete lack of humility with which you state your observation.
      Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    3. Top | #43
      langel is offline
      This user has no status.
       
      Master TTD Member Country: Bulgaria

      Equipment:
      Blade Xiom Vega Tour
      Forehand Rubber Xiom Omega VII Asia 2.0, Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0
      Backhand Rubber Xiom Omega VII Asia 2.0, Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0

      Join Date
      Apr 2017
      Posts
      1,751
      Reviews
      Read 0 Reviews
      Liked 827 Times in 575 Posts
      Quote Originally Posted by perham View Post
      Good advice all-round. I tried to incorporate some, but now my serve looks like a shovel serve a bit.

      https://streamable.com/15up6
      That's good, and if you continue the same approach you will improve it and add some usefull variations.
      This serve has enough amount of top spin to be considered as a "top spin serve". With less spin it would be considered as just a "no spin", no matter is it top or under or whatever. And this thread is about the top spin serve, not the dead one.
      I like you do it along the diagonal. As the top spin ball has a longer trajectory than the under spinned, it helps to send the ball closer to the net on the opponents siide, and/or to send it aside from tne table, and/or to the weaker wing of the opponent.
      In one of these serves its well visible how you apply a good portion of side spin over the top. This clockwise sidespin to the BH takes the ball even more aside and the return was one of the worst both due to the placemet and the wrong approach of the opponet to the spin direction.
      Its very well visible that the closer to you is the first bounce, the closer to the net on the opponents side is the second, and the closer to the net is the first, the deeper is the second. And its visible that for this particular opponent your longer serves are more difficult to return. He had better success with your shorter serves. So its good to master different variations and try the opponent. To this opponent you better serve long.
      Generally /and usually/ I do agree a lot with Der_Echte, as the majority of his approaches do cover my own ones. But here I do disagree with the concept that one should not concentrate too much on the first bounce. Well, I do agree that it may be true for the experienced player, who is used to the many factors and is able to concentrate on the implementation of the one which is most important for the particular aim, leaving the rest to the well trained motor systems. But for the developing player, starting his approch in a new field, that's not true. It matters, and I think that in this very approach it matters a lot.

    4. The Following 3 Users Like langel's Post:

      Der_Echte (06-22-2019),NextLevel (06-22-2019),perham (06-22-2019)

    5. Top | #44
      NextLevel is offline
      This user has no status.
       
      Master TTD Member Country: Nigeria

      Equipment:
      Blade Stiga Carbonado 190
      Forehand Rubber Tibhar MX-K
      Backhand Rubber Tibhar MX-K

      Join Date
      Oct 2014
      Location
      Somewhere Good in the US
      Posts
      8,203
      Reviews
      Read 16 Reviews
      Liked 12,460 Times in 5,502 Posts
      Quote Originally Posted by langel View Post
      That's good, and if you continue the same approach you will improve it and add some usefull variations.
      This serve has enough amount of top spin to be considered as a "top spin serve". With less spin it would be considered as just a "no spin", no matter is it top or under or whatever. And this thread is about the top spin serve, not the dead one.
      I like you do it along the diagonal. As the top spin ball has a longer trajectory than the under spinned, it helps to send the ball closer to the net on the opponents siide, and/or to send it aside from tne table, and/or to the weaker wing of the opponent.
      In one of these serves its well visible how you apply a good portion of side spin over the top. This clockwise sidespin to the BH takes the ball even more aside and the return was one of the worst both due to the placemet and the wrong approach of the opponet to the spin direction.
      Its very well visible that the closer to you is the first bounce, the closer to the net on the opponents side is the second, and the closer to the net is the first, the deeper is the second. And its visible that for this particular opponent your longer serves are more difficult to return. He had better success with your shorter serves. So its good to master different variations and try the opponent. To this opponent you better serve long.
      Generally /and usually/ I do agree a lot with Der_Echte, as the majority of his approaches do cover my own ones. But here I do disagree with the concept that one should not concentrate too much on the first bounce. Well, I do agree that it may be true for the experienced player, who is used to the many factors and is able to concentrate on the implementation of the one which is most important for the particular aim, leaving the rest to the well trained motor systems. But for the developing player, starting his approch in a new field, that's not true. It matters, and I think that in this very approach it matters a lot.
      Well, coaches can disagree on many things and it can be interesting to introduce concepts in a variety of ways. The problem.with focusing on the bounce on your side is that it really depends on the player. I used to be able to serve fast short backspin and short topspin with bounce close to my endline. But I thought it was "wrong" rather than just focusing on the serve.

      You can use the bounce on your side as a guide but it is not going to determine whether the serve is short. The bounce on the other side determines that. This is the important thing. And that is why people who understand it need to stress it so that people know what is important.

      Developing a good serve requires a lot of practice. It is not going to matter where the first bounce is on your side if you practice a lot and continue to fix it. But it will never be shirt if the first bounce is too far from the net on the other side. How you get it there is up to you.
      Last edited by NextLevel; 06-22-2019 at 12:14 PM.

    6. The Following User Likes NextLevel's Post:

      Der_Echte (06-22-2019)

    7. Top | #45
      Der_Echte is online now
      says Grand Consultant to the Office
      of the Goon Squad
       
      Master TTD Member Country: South Korea
      Der_Echte's Avatar
      Equipment:
      Blade Nexy Batos ALC
      Forehand Rubber Tibhar MX-K
      Backhand Rubber Tibhar FX-S

      Join Date
      Sep 2011
      Location
      Sacramento, USA
      Posts
      8,909
      Reviews
      Read 27 Reviews
      Liked 9,315 Times in 4,821 Posts
      I don't want to sound like Der_Echte be making it up as he goes along... but when I say "Don't worry too much on where the first bounce lands" I am not saying to ignore the first bounce location - it is a critical part of your serve.

      I am saying that there are more important aspects of the short topspin serve than the first bounce.

      You could get the first bounce thing absolutely nailed and still have a crap fail of a topspin short serve. Slowing it down, getting the right touch, the right trajectory are going to affect the first and second bounce on the other side more than messing those two things up and nailing the 1st bounce on your side.

      Now I will contradict myself and confuse everyone some more, since I am that kind of dude.

      In that one year where I had no TT matches and could only practice serves a few minutes each day, (TT table was in the phone trailer and it was bad deal to have all these bouncing noisy balls when guys be calling back home)… back then I was learning to serve short under and its variants.

      I focused on first bounce on my side of table as the next to last thing, but at that time, it was the main focus, but not until I worked on most everything else first, then it was a huge focus point.

      There were a lot of things affecting and contributing to my failures back then to make the simplest of a short serve.

      - Getting bat angle horizontal to table at impact / making a horizontal stroke with a pendulum curve
      - Loose grip at impact
      - Stopping upper arm and using lower arm/wrist - getting basic biomechanics right
      - Making an effective whip
      - Getting a consistent ball toss / using end line as a guide to toss
      - Learning the timing of swing and bat to ball for impact in the sweet spot of impact zone
      - Learning the different impact heights and ball trajectories possible for my impact
      - GETTING FIRST BOUNCE ON MY SIDE RIGHT
      - Adjusting impact dynamics (impact height, force, trajectory, first bounce on my side) optimized for a very tight, low short serve
      - Developing better touch and whip to get more spin when I go for that

      I did a progressive approach to isolate some core things.

      - Phase 1 Away from table, toss ball, make heavy high arching backspin 10 feet out on floor, spin ball back (This focused on my impact timing, horizontal stroke, and later, the needed whip)

      - Phase 2 At table, 2 meters behind table, do the same thing (This focused on visualizing the table and developing confidence I could whip it at the table, plus get good spin)

      - Phase 3 At table, put it all together (and fail) to make a BASIC short serve, not perfect, but a short serve (This focused on everything, not so much the first bounce POINT, but a ZONE to land first bounce on my side)

      - Phase 4 At table, fine tune all the aspects to get the serve right, first bounce POINT or smaller ZONE was the focus while I improved everything else.
      President, Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club. Hit us up on TTD or Facebook
      http://www.facebook.com/koreaforeignttc

      Janitor at NexyUSA TT Equipment Shop
      http://www.nexyusa.com

      View our Lame Nexy USA corporate FB page
      http://www.facebook.com/nexyusa

    8. The Following User Likes Der_Echte's Post:

      langel (06-22-2019)

    9. Top | #46
      Der_Echte is online now
      says Grand Consultant to the Office
      of the Goon Squad
       
      Master TTD Member Country: South Korea
      Der_Echte's Avatar
      Equipment:
      Blade Nexy Batos ALC
      Forehand Rubber Tibhar MX-K
      Backhand Rubber Tibhar FX-S

      Join Date
      Sep 2011
      Location
      Sacramento, USA
      Posts
      8,909
      Reviews
      Read 27 Reviews
      Liked 9,315 Times in 4,821 Posts
      Many adults watch my short serves when I practice in the TT hall (when I am not in a match and goofing off)

      These adult players want a short serve and realize their short serve is non-existent and weak spin. They want to get a better advantage in their game. Many of these players ask me how I get the serve short or get the level of spin. I explain... then instead of progressive approach that takes time, they go for glory right away practicing at the table immediately with energy and desire.

      These adults practice at the table trying to put it all together right away, an EPIC FAIL every time. There are way too many things to get right to be able to practice them all at one time effectively. One failure leads to another. That energy and desire evaporates like water in the desert.

      These adults get discouraged and depressed as they see themselves fail, step on their figurative wee-wee with every attempted serve... and end up with even crappier serves than before.

      That is why I always show players and stress the fundamentals with a progressive approach. Both Dan and Brett Clark show this approach in their serve vids.

      Even those who try the progressive approach give up way too soon. Even if an adult player were to train the most effective possible way, it STILL TAKES A LOT OF TIME, REPS, and FAILURES to make progress. Even then, many adults give up too soon.

      I support NL and all the TTD members when they make posts saying that there is a different focus, or a different way, or a different technique for the same shot, serve, tactic, or TT goal for different players in different parts of development for those things or their play level in general.

      I also support people who say there are many paths, or at least more than one effective path. Yet, laws of physics/psychiatry, and basic fundamentals cannot be ignored, there can be many common things in differing foundations or paths.
      Last edited by Der_Echte; 06-22-2019 at 05:07 PM.

    10. The Following User Likes Der_Echte's Post:

      NextLevel (06-22-2019)

    11. Top | #47
      Der_Echte is online now
      says Grand Consultant to the Office
      of the Goon Squad
       
      Master TTD Member Country: South Korea
      Der_Echte's Avatar
      Equipment:
      Blade Nexy Batos ALC
      Forehand Rubber Tibhar MX-K
      Backhand Rubber Tibhar FX-S

      Join Date
      Sep 2011
      Location
      Sacramento, USA
      Posts
      8,909
      Reviews
      Read 27 Reviews
      Liked 9,315 Times in 4,821 Posts
      Quote Originally Posted by langel
      But here I do disagree with the concept that one should not concentrate too much on the first bounce. Well, I do agree that it may be true for the experienced player, who is used to the many factors and is able to concentrate on the implementation of the one which is most important for the particular aim, leaving the rest to the well trained motor systems. But for the developing player, starting his approch in a new field, that's not true. It matters, and I think that in this very approach it matters a lot.
      I made several long posts addressing this in my posts before this post.

      We are both correct (at least I believe that).

      I advocate and strongly support the concept when learning a shot, tactic or combination of a holistic view and approach with learning and progression.

      By this nature, there will be different things to focus on as it may be too much to do everything all at once putting it all together.

      I do not back down from my statement that Der_Echte should not worry too much about the first bounce. Der_Echte is in a different phase than a developing player learning the short topspin serve (although I am still a developing adult player) Der_Echte knows the concepts and factor of the short topspin serve. He is beyond worrying about the first bounce and has other issues affecting the shortness of that serve. (touch, force control, and trajectory)

      Given that, I really must worry about my touch at impact, it is affecting my failure to keep it short half the time (but a halflong serve where I fool someone on the spin is still very effective serving).

      That is why I say I worry NOT so much on my first bounce. At this stage, my brain is working (or malfunctioning) different than standard and I need to approach it different.

      For now, I accept that I am barely over 50% consistent on keeping the topspin short serve short and that I just need to keep practicing to develop better touch and impact control. It is one of the toughest serves to be near 100% consistent. I just accept that I am still developing, but try to use the serve in a match at a time where my sales delivery will get opponent to mis-read or hesitate, so I can get an advantage immediately in the rally.

    12. Top | #48
      langel is offline
      This user has no status.
       
      Master TTD Member Country: Bulgaria

      Equipment:
      Blade Xiom Vega Tour
      Forehand Rubber Xiom Omega VII Asia 2.0, Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0
      Backhand Rubber Xiom Omega VII Asia 2.0, Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0

      Join Date
      Apr 2017
      Posts
      1,751
      Reviews
      Read 0 Reviews
      Liked 827 Times in 575 Posts
      Yes, thats all good and true!
      What you descrbe in your lower part of #45, I call "volume compression", and I use it not only for serves.
      Steps - thats what we all have to care about not only in personal development, but in forum communication too.
      A too big step, or a marathon, would not help at all, and a wrong step would damage for sure.

    13. The Following User Likes langel's Post:

      Der_Echte (06-22-2019)

    14. Top | #49
      NextLevel is offline
      This user has no status.
       
      Master TTD Member Country: Nigeria

      Equipment:
      Blade Stiga Carbonado 190
      Forehand Rubber Tibhar MX-K
      Backhand Rubber Tibhar MX-K

      Join Date
      Oct 2014
      Location
      Somewhere Good in the US
      Posts
      8,203
      Reviews
      Read 16 Reviews
      Liked 12,460 Times in 5,502 Posts
      So, again, to close out my side of things, let me explain once more in excruciating detail why *focusing* on the first bounce on your side is misplaced in the terms of giving special advice about *serving short*.

      A *Short serve* is not determined by where the first bounce on your side lands.

      If you practice serving a lot, you will look at a lot of things about to serve to understand what spin is on it and how it is traveling. One of those things will be where the serve bounces on your side because it is part of the complete serve trajectory.

      But when learning to serve short, there is all kinds of advice out there. There are some people who say that the first bounce must be close to the net. There are some coaches who will tell you that the plastic ball has changed this and the first bounce must be closer to your endline because of the plastic ball. But a high level player told me that a coach told him when he was younger (which will be 20 years ago or more) to serve close to his endline for *all* serves, including short ones, because it made them faster.

      Brett, who is an incredible server, told me that if you want to practice short serving, use your visualization to imagine the serve bouncing just behind the net on the opponent's side. Then with your skills, practice repeatedly. Of course, Brett also believes that most players can't serve tight (low, spinny and short) unless they are 2500 and that even world class players have trouble doing this upon demand under pressure. Brett taught me that the most important return to learn is the forehand loop of long and half long serves.

      Part of the reason why many players can't serve short is that too many coaches keep giving bad instruction about what makes a serve short. The focus is always on the first bounce on your side when that has nothing to do with whether the serve is short or not. The key is that however you practice your feeling, and no matter your touch, the first bounce has to be close to the net on the opponent's side. OF course, with heavy backspin and some sidespin serves, you have room for more error because sidespin gives longer trajectory and backspin tends to want to slow down. Topspin wants to roll forward but the touch is harder. But if you can find a way to serve short topspin with the first bounce on your side close to the net, then do it. I don't think it is easy or possible, but you may find a trick that can make it happen.

      When you use the firsts bounce on your side as information, but not as the determinant of serve length, good things happen. When you use the first bounce on the opponent's side as very important, fantastic things happen. Because you are focusing on what really makes the serve short.

      If you want to raise your deception, you may do some interesting things like try to serve your backspin so that it bounces a little higher like topspin so you can serve high topspin and remain deceptive. Both can be short and deceptive if you focus on the first bounce on the opponents' side. You can also push down when serving topspin so that it travels low like backspin and then try to serve your backspin serves with more speed but with the first bounce close to your endline but fast enough to look like it is fast topspin serve. These are all possible when you know that you can play with your serve trajectory given your target of serving the ball at a specific point on the opponent's side. And while you need to practice a lot to get this control, it is easy to start doing it when you understand what really keeps a serve short.

      So I implore you, please stop repeating and focusing on outdated advice about the first bounce on your side - the first bounce on your side is more related to SPEED, not DEPTH. Note it, but always stress to the serving student that what keeps the serve short is usually the first bounce on the opponent's side. The faster the serve you serve into the short zone, the better, because it usually means the serve is lower and gives the opponent less time to decide.
      Last edited by NextLevel; 06-23-2019 at 02:17 AM.

    15. The Following 3 Users Like NextLevel's Post:

      Der_Echte (06-23-2019),langel (06-23-2019),UpSideDownCarl (06-23-2019)

    16. Top | #50
      NextLevel is offline
      This user has no status.
       
      Master TTD Member Country: Nigeria

      Equipment:
      Blade Stiga Carbonado 190
      Forehand Rubber Tibhar MX-K
      Backhand Rubber Tibhar MX-K

      Join Date
      Oct 2014
      Location
      Somewhere Good in the US
      Posts
      8,203
      Reviews
      Read 16 Reviews
      Liked 12,460 Times in 5,502 Posts
      Quote Originally Posted by perham View Post
      Good advice all-round. I tried to incorporate some, but now my serve looks like a shovel serve a bit.

      https://streamable.com/15up6

      So a couple of comments.

      I hope you do realize that it is 99.9% certain that those were really long serves (or if not long, not really tight) but you aren't playing the quality of opponent to devastate them (to his credit, he did attack them). The bounce is too far from the net on the opponent's side but the serve speed fooled him, and maybe his lack of experience/training. But if he had left the serves, they would have come off the table.

      One lesson for you is that it is very hard for people to serve short at your level, if you learn to attack long and half long serves, your level will go up fast.

      As for the serve itself, serve around the side even more and try to make the first bounce on the opponent's side closer to the net to keep it short. However you do that is up to you, there are many ways that work with practice. But if you do it with spin, it is going to be mostly sidespin or corkscrew.

    17. The Following 2 Users Like NextLevel's Post:

      Der_Echte (06-23-2019),UpSideDownCarl (06-23-2019)

    18. Top | #51
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
      says Krooklyn District Goon Squad
      Commissioner
       
      Equipment Expert
      Super Moderator Country: United States
      UpSideDownCarl's Avatar
      Equipment:
      Blade OSP Virtuoso +
      Forehand Rubber BH:Red F-XP
      Backhand Rubber FH:Black M-XP

      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      Location
      Brooklyn, New York
      Posts
      12,396
      Reviews
      Read 11 Reviews
      Liked 14,103 Times in 6,718 Posts
      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      So, again, to close out my side of things, let me explain once more in excruciating detail why *focusing* on the first bounce on your side is misplaced in the terms of giving special advice about *serving short*.

      A *Short serve* is not determined by where the first bounce on your side lands.

      If you practice serving a lot, you will look at a lot of things about to serve to understand what spin is on it and how it is traveling. One of those things will be where the serve bounces on your side because it is part of the complete serve trajectory.

      But when learning to serve short, there is all kinds of advice out there. There are some people who say that the first bounce must be close to the net. There are some coaches who will tell you that the plastic ball has changed this and the first bounce must be closer to your endline because of the plastic ball. But a high level player told me that a coach told him when he was younger (which will be 20 years ago or more) to serve close to his endline for *all* serves, including short ones, because it made them faster.

      Brett, who is an incredible server, told me that if you want to practice short serving, use your visualization to imagine the serve bouncing just behind the net on the opponent's side. Then with your skills, practice repeatedly. Of course, Brett also believes that most players can't serve tight (low, spinny and short) unless they are 2500 and that even world class players have trouble doing this upon demand under pressure. Brett taught me that the most important return to learn is the forehand loop of long and half long serves.

      Part of the reason why many players can't serve short is that too many coaches keep giving bad instruction about what makes a serve short. The focus is always on the first bounce on your side when that has nothing to do with whether the serve is short or not. The key is that however you practice your feeling, and no matter your touch, the first bounce has to be close to the net on the opponent's side. OF course, with heavy backspin and some sidespin serves, you have room for more error because sidespin gives longer trajectory and backspin tends to want to slow down. Topspin wants to roll forward but the touch is harder. But if you can find a way to serve short topspin with the first bounce on your side close to the net, then do it. I don't think it is easy or possible, but you may find a trick that can make it happen.

      When you use the firsts bounce on your side as information, but not as the determinant of serve length, good things happen. When you use the first bounce on the opponent's side as very important, fantastic things happen. Because you are focusing on what really makes the serve short.

      If you want to raise your deception, you may do some interesting things like try to serve your backspin so that it bounces a little higher like topspin so you can serve high topspin and remain deceptive. Both can be short and deceptive if you focus on the first bounce on the opponents' side. You can also push down when serving topspin so that it travels low like backspin and then try to serve your backspin serves with more speed but with the first bounce close to your endline but fast enough to look like it is fast topspin serve. These are all possible when you know that you can play with your serve trajectory given your target of serving the ball at a specific point on the opponent's side. And while you need to practice a lot to get this control, it is easy to start doing it when you understand what really keeps a serve short.

      So I implore you, please stop repeating and focusing on outdated advice about the first bounce on your side - the first bounce on your side is more related to SPEED, not DEPTH. Note it, but always stress to the serving student that what keeps the serve short is usually the first bounce on the opponent's side. The faster the serve you serve into the short zone, the better, because it usually means the serve is lower and gives the opponent less time to decide.
      This is a great post.
      Spin Everything.

    19. Top | #52
      langel is offline
      This user has no status.
       
      Master TTD Member Country: Bulgaria

      Equipment:
      Blade Xiom Vega Tour
      Forehand Rubber Xiom Omega VII Asia 2.0, Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0
      Backhand Rubber Xiom Omega VII Asia 2.0, Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0

      Join Date
      Apr 2017
      Posts
      1,751
      Reviews
      Read 0 Reviews
      Liked 827 Times in 575 Posts
      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      Topspin wants to roll forward but the touch is harder. But if you can find a way to serve short topspin with the first bounce on your side close to the net, then do it. I don't think it is easy or possible, but you may find a trick that can make it happen.

      Fully agree with everything in your post.
      I decided to citate the extraction only just to remind that the long discussion on the importance of the "first bounce" started with the very short remark "I doubt.......", which is the same as the bolded above. It wouldn't go so long, if the concept was corrected. But as you see, when a fundamental basis is wrong, it takes a lot of time and words to put the pieces together.
      I beleive that now the OP has a clear roadmap for the particular approach.

    20. The Following 3 Users Like langel's Post:

      Der_Echte (06-23-2019),NextLevel (06-23-2019),UpSideDownCarl (06-23-2019)

    21. Top | #53
      Der_Echte is online now
      says Grand Consultant to the Office
      of the Goon Squad
       
      Master TTD Member Country: South Korea
      Der_Echte's Avatar
      Equipment:
      Blade Nexy Batos ALC
      Forehand Rubber Tibhar MX-K
      Backhand Rubber Tibhar FX-S

      Join Date
      Sep 2011
      Location
      Sacramento, USA
      Posts
      8,909
      Reviews
      Read 27 Reviews
      Liked 9,315 Times in 4,821 Posts
      After Next Level's post... got to thinking a bit more about first bounce on my side... I really could NOT tell you my exact landing spot on my side of net for a topspin short serve that I do... and I am credited with having at least serviceable OK short topspin serves. I would need to look at a video, honestly. I am simply trying to get ball low over net and land close to net as possible other side, and stay low, then bounce twice if left alone. I cannot do that serve looking at my landing spot at impact.

      For the life of me, without watch a vid of myself, I couldn't advise the landing spot on my side as my impact for a short topspin is different than underspin... that serve I could say where my landing zone is.

      For a short underspin serve I like to do, there is a small zone I target, right at half way to net and goes forward 10-15 cm... Even that is just a zone, I basically try to relax and think/see the ball over as I impact it... I practiced enough that I am trying to see in my mind where it goes, but I have an idea where it will land on my side given a consistent stroke. Later, I will need to practice faster short serves that will land closer to 25% from endline to give the look of long, or half long, but be short.

      I THINK my landing zone is on the left side of table maybe almost 50% to net, but I would have to see successful short serves I did on matches in vids to really know. I wouldn't be able to tell you accurately if I was offered $1 Million USD right now to say without looking at a vid of me.

    22. Top | #54
      FruitLoop is offline
      says Looping
       
      Senior TTD Member Country: Europe
      FruitLoop's Avatar
      Equipment:
      Blade Butterfly Tomokazu Harimoto Innerforce ALC
      Forehand Rubber Butterfly Dignics 05
      Backhand Rubber Butterfly Dignics 05

      Join Date
      Sep 2018
      Posts
      840
      Reviews
      Read 0 Reviews
      Liked 535 Times in 328 Posts
      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      Honestly let's see your serve. If you feel inclined to comment about his serving, you can hopefully demonstrate the expertise that supports your observation given the complete lack of humility with which you state your observation.
      What lack of humility? I feel inclined because he asked for help he was specifically requesting what I provided. Your comment here is utterly bizarre. Honestly? Go **** yourself.

    23. Top | #55
      NextLevel is offline
      This user has no status.
       
      Master TTD Member Country: Nigeria

      Equipment:
      Blade Stiga Carbonado 190
      Forehand Rubber Tibhar MX-K
      Backhand Rubber Tibhar MX-K

      Join Date
      Oct 2014
      Location
      Somewhere Good in the US
      Posts
      8,203
      Reviews
      Read 16 Reviews
      Liked 12,460 Times in 5,502 Posts
      Quote Originally Posted by FruitLoop View Post
      What lack of humility? I feel inclined because he asked for help he was specifically requesting what I provided. Your comment here is utterly bizarre. Honestly? Go **** yourself.
      Well I also feel inclined to make sure that most web coaching on TTD is done in a manner that encourages people who put out their videos in good faith to get comments from people who have at least demonstrated some willingness to discuss their game a significant amount so people understand their perspective.

      If you aren't willing to be a bit open about what you know about serving that justifies just telling someone who posted video of his serve how to improve it in the terse and uninsightful manner that you did, just stick to coaching people who don't know better.

      I wouldn't be surprised if your serve is hardly better than his with the kinds of comment you wrote about it to be honest. And I am being generous when I say that.

    24. Top | #56
      FruitLoop is offline
      says Looping
       
      Senior TTD Member Country: Europe
      FruitLoop's Avatar
      Equipment:
      Blade Butterfly Tomokazu Harimoto Innerforce ALC
      Forehand Rubber Butterfly Dignics 05
      Backhand Rubber Butterfly Dignics 05

      Join Date
      Sep 2018
      Posts
      840
      Reviews
      Read 0 Reviews
      Liked 535 Times in 328 Posts
      Lacking humility, terse, uninsightful. None of those things are REMOTELY fair, it was a perfectly humble comment. I actually thought you had quoted the wrong post at first but then I realised who it was. The irony asking for humility coming from the astounding levels of arrogance you regularly display is rich. Your appeals to authority tiresome. Your insightfulness on this guy's serve? Absent. I am done.

    25. Top | #57
      RidTheKid is offline
      This user has no status.
       
      Master TTD Member Country: Sweden

      Equipment:
      Blade DHS W968
      Forehand Rubber DHS Hurricane 3 NEO National
      Backhand Rubber DHS Hurricane 3 NEO National (Blue Sponge)

      Join Date
      Oct 2016
      Location
      Stockholm
      Posts
      1,549
      Reviews
      Read 0 Reviews
      Liked 1,074 Times in 590 Posts
      I both agree and disagree with this post NL. While the competitive side in me absolutely wants to see how good someone else is who comments on my technique/quality/level, one doesn't have to be a great player themselves to understand the mechanics of TT to give good advice. If we compare football, some really good coaches was mediocre players at best.

      But I don't care much for Fruitloops outburst, lets keep it civil even in times of argument. Whenever that feeling to throw harsh words around I recommend to step away from the forum for 10 mins and collect the thoughts. A Timeout of sorts.

      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      Well I also feel inclined to make sure that most web coaching on TTD is done in a manner that encourages people who put out their videos in good faith to get comments from people who have at least demonstrated some willingness to discuss their game a significant amount so people understand their perspective.

      If you aren't willing to be a bit open about what you know about serving that justifies just telling someone who posted video of his serve how to improve it in the terse and uninsightful manner that you did, just stick to coaching people who don't know better.

      I wouldn't be surprised if your serve is hardly better than his with the kinds of comment you wrote about it to be honest. And I am being generous when I say that.

    26. The Following 2 Users Like RidTheKid's Post:

      NextLevel (06-24-2019),UpSideDownCarl (06-25-2019)

    27. Top | #58
      langel is offline
      This user has no status.
       
      Master TTD Member Country: Bulgaria

      Equipment:
      Blade Xiom Vega Tour
      Forehand Rubber Xiom Omega VII Asia 2.0, Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0
      Backhand Rubber Xiom Omega VII Asia 2.0, Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0

      Join Date
      Apr 2017
      Posts
      1,751
      Reviews
      Read 0 Reviews
      Liked 827 Times in 575 Posts
      #3
      Quote Originally Posted by langel View Post
      Serve top spin along the diagonals from corner to corner, first bounce closer to you, soft and spinny, keep it low, and even not so short, the ball will either sink close to the edge, or even double bounce.
      #7
      Quote Originally Posted by langel View Post
      I doubt that with top spin, even with a very soft touch, you'll get a short serve if the first bounce is close to the net.
      With top spin closer to the net first bounce means deeper second one.
      With top spin the distance between the two bounces is longer than with under spin /provided same force applied/.
      With top spin the ball is faster than with under spin, and the second bounce is lower.
      Because of that the advantage of the top spin serve is not exactly in the very short placement, which in general is difficult to be achieved, but anyway if you want to, you have to make the first bounce not closer to the net, but the opposite, and along the diagonals, trying to make the ball not to lieve the table after the seconf bounce and to keep the ball as low as possible.
      Otherwise, with less or no spin, even if short, the ball can be easily attacked and flipped strong. In this case the only chance is the opponent to missread the ball.
      Short and easy.

      Everything from #7 up to #56 - either wrong, or just a kind of logorrhea explanation mode.

      End of thread

      p.s - Der_Echte has a wonderfull thread about Why this forum is going low.
      Answer - Everything from #7 up to #56 - either wrong, or just a kind of logorrhea explanation mode.


      @ administrator&moderator allert - look&bann

      Farewell&CaseClosed

      Thank You

    28. Top | #59
      Der_Echte is online now
      says Grand Consultant to the Office
      of the Goon Squad
       
      Master TTD Member Country: South Korea
      Der_Echte's Avatar
      Equipment:
      Blade Nexy Batos ALC
      Forehand Rubber Tibhar MX-K
      Backhand Rubber Tibhar FX-S

      Join Date
      Sep 2011
      Location
      Sacramento, USA
      Posts
      8,909
      Reviews
      Read 27 Reviews
      Liked 9,315 Times in 4,821 Posts
      Uh oh, Goon Squad deployment detected in sector 4 Bravo...

      Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

    29. The Following User Likes Der_Echte's Post:

      UpSideDownCarl (06-25-2019)

    30. Top | #60
      NextLevel is offline
      This user has no status.
       
      Master TTD Member Country: Nigeria

      Equipment:
      Blade Stiga Carbonado 190
      Forehand Rubber Tibhar MX-K
      Backhand Rubber Tibhar MX-K

      Join Date
      Oct 2014
      Location
      Somewhere Good in the US
      Posts
      8,203
      Reviews
      Read 16 Reviews
      Liked 12,460 Times in 5,502 Posts
      Quote Originally Posted by RidTheKid View Post
      I both agree and disagree with this post NL. While the competitive side in me absolutely wants to see how good someone else is who comments on my technique/quality/level, one doesn't have to be a great player themselves to understand the mechanics of TT to give good advice. If we compare football, some really good coaches was mediocre players at best.

      But I don't care much for Fruitloops outburst, lets keep it civil even in times of argument. Whenever that feeling to throw harsh words around I recommend to step away from the forum for 10 mins and collect the thoughts. A Timeout of sorts.
      I don't think I ever said great player. When I am being reflective, I really mean that critics should give some evidence of their play or some perspective of their experience so others can see where they are coming from. I will accept coaching experience too, I have seen adults who can't play that well develop kids or adults so they can be very insightful. But few of them would make a post like fruitloop's because they know either from coaching or experience what things are important and what things are not and how easy it is to diagnose but how hard it is to convey solutions.

      Either you have experience improving yourself or you have experience improving others or both. Experience improving adults is even a class by itself. And a lot of my perspective on posts like fruitloop comes from taking people who I never should have taken seriously seriously in my early years of internet posting. Those posts left me trying things I should never have tried.

      In any case, I appreciate your intervention. It's not the first time that fruitloop and I have clashed over something like this and I suspect it won't be the last.

      I ultimately don't care whether someone is a good player or not. I just find that when people have talked about their background or posted video, they tend to be far more humble on forums. fruitloop is not the first person to go around this forum pretending to know stuff he doesn't really practice. In most cases, I just do the best I can to make people keep it real and humble.
      Last edited by NextLevel; 06-25-2019 at 06:13 AM.

    31. The Following User Likes NextLevel's Post:

      ttmonster (06-24-2019)

    Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •  
    Log in or Register
    BACK TO TOP