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    1. Top | #1
      bbanzai is offline
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      To seal or not to seal

      Hi, I just got a brand new Stiga Nostalgic Offensive and would like to fit rubbers to it using self-adhesive sheets (XVT ones I got on eBay). I never used these sheets and don’t know how “aggressive” they are to the blade surface. Should I seal the blade before sticking the rubbers? In the past I only sealed old Stiga blades, using a Donic water-based coating.
      Thanks for any suggestions you may have.

      Take care, BB

    2. Top | #2
      lasta is offline
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      Stiga Nostalgic has a Wenge surface no? In that case, no need to seal, there is almost no risk of splintering. I do multiple layer "varnishing" on some softer surfaced blades, but that's more to change the feel to my preferences than for protection. No need to worry about your blade in particular.

    3. Top | #3
      vik2000 is offline
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      What's the particular characteristic associated with Wenge that you don't need to seal? Based on my research, it seems like sealing blade is a no brainer because of the protection it offers not only in terms of splintering but also water-based glue permeating the blade.

    4. Top | #4
      RidTheKid is offline
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      Sealing is supposed to change the playing characteristics of the blade, maybe it's not for everyone.

      Quote Originally Posted by vik2000 View Post
      What's the particular characteristic associated with Wenge that you don't need to seal? Based on my research, it seems like sealing blade is a no brainer because of the protection it offers not only in terms of splintering but also water-based glue permeating the blade.

    5. Top | #5
      lasta is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by vik2000 View Post
      What's the particular characteristic associated with Wenge that you don't need to seal? Based on my research, it seems like sealing blade is a no brainer because of the protection it offers not only in terms of splintering but also water-based glue permeating the blade.
      People either seal to change the playing characteristics or to protect from splintering. Wenge is so tough that I'll crack a fingernail before getting a splinter off, I doubt any TT glue would be strong enough to cause damage.

    6. Top | #6
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      To seal or not to seal

      Quote Originally Posted by vik2000 View Post
      What's the particular characteristic associated with Wenge that you don't need to seal? Based on my research, it seems like sealing blade is a no brainer because of the protection it offers not only in terms of splintering but also water-based glue permeating the blade.
      Quote Originally Posted by RidTheKid View Post
      Sealing is supposed to change the playing characteristics of the blade, maybe it's not for everyone.
      It does depend on the blade. But Stiga is notorious for making blades that are delicate and splinter when not sealed.

      When sealing you only need a VERY thin layer of sealant. If you seal the way I seal a blade, and you think you can feel the before and after I would be more than willing to assert that the placebo effect is what is happening.

      If you did a double blind test, sets of paired blades same make, same weight, one sealed, one not sealed, 20, 30, 50 sets, as many as you want, I would put a lot of money that the guesses would be in the standard deviation around 50% if I do the sealing.

      If someone is foolish and puts a thick layer on, or even more foolish and puts two or three layers on, that you can tell. And it would be completely beside the point of why you would seal a blade in the first place.

      But with blades that are less delicate, there is often no reason to seal. So you can choose to seal or not as you like.

      But if you seal, anything more than the thinnest of layers is not necessary. I use MinWax Wipe-On Poly where the sealant has been thinned and you wipe it on with a cloth where you have the control to make the layer so thin that if you looked at the blade, you would not realize it had been sealed.

      But it still depends on what you want. Is it worth the time and effort to seal? Some will say yes. Some will say no. But it is usually unnecessary unless the top ply is delicate.

      .....an aside, when it is stated that sealing changes the playing characteristics of the blade, it is usually stated with the assumption that changing the playing characteristics is always an unwanted outcome. Sometimes that is not quite the case. But you would still be better off getting a blade you like rather than trying to change the playing characteristics of a blade you don’t like.

      So sealing is still simply a choice for each player.

      Sent from my NSA SpyPhone from Sector 13D-SR13Z74 Sub Level 29X Fort Meade, Maryland
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:11 PM.
      Spin Everything.

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    8. Top | #7
      bbanzai is offline
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      I would not be concerned about splintering in the case of normal glueing. It’s the new (for me) adhesive sheet which makes me wonder.

    9. Top | #8
      RidTheKid is offline
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      I use w968 which has a limba outer, I experienced pretty heavy splintering on one of my 968's. Had to pull off wooded splinters from the rubbers and glue them back as nicely as I could. It didn't turn out 100% I'm wondering if it's more difficult to avoid splintering when the rubbers has been attached on the blade longer than shorter amount of time? So far I haven't reglued often since I don't play more than 2-3 times a month.

      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      It does depend on the blade. But Stiga is notorious for making blades that are delicate and splinter when not sealed.

      When sealing you only need a VERY thin layer of sealant. If you seal the way I seal a blade, and you think you can feel the before and after I would be more than willing to assert that the placebo effect is what is happening.

      If you did a double blind test, sets of blades, one sealed, one not sealed, 20, 30, 50 sets, as many as you want, I would put a lot of money that the guesses would be in the range of deviation around 50%.

      If someone is foolish and puts a thick layer on, or even more foolish and puts two or three layers on, that you can tell. And completely beside the point of why you would seal a blade in the first place.

      But with blades that are less delicate, there is often no reason to seal. So you can choose to seal or not as you like.

      But if you seal, anything more than the thinnest of layers is not necessary. I use MinWax Wipe-On Poly where the sealant has been thinned and you wipe it on with a cloth where you have the control to make the layer so thin that if you looked at the blade, you would not realize it had been sealed.

      But it still depends on what you want. Is it worth the time and effort to seal? Some will say yes. Some will say no. But it is usually unnecessary unless the top ply is delicate.


      Sent from my NSA SpyPhone from Sector 13D-SR13Z74 Sub Level 29X Fort Meade, Maryland

    10. Top | #9
      vik2000 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      It does depend on the blade. But Stiga is notorious for making blades that are delicate and splinter when not sealed.

      When sealing you only need a VERY thin layer of sealant. If you seal the way I seal a blade, and you think you can feel the before and after I would be more than willing to assert that the placebo effect is what is happening.

      If you did a double blind test, sets of paired blades same make, same weight, one sealed, one not sealed, 20, 30, 50 sets, as many as you want, I would put a lot of money that the guesses would be in the standard deviation around 50% if I do the sealing.

      If someone is foolish and puts a thick layer on, or even more foolish and puts two or three layers on, that you can tell. And it would be completely beside the point of why you would seal a blade in the first place.

      But with blades that are less delicate, there is often no reason to seal. So you can choose to seal or not as you like.

      But if you seal, anything more than the thinnest of layers is not necessary. I use MinWax Wipe-On Poly where the sealant has been thinned and you wipe it on with a cloth where you have the control to make the layer so thin that if you looked at the blade, you would not realize it had been sealed.

      But it still depends on what you want. Is it worth the time and effort to seal? Some will say yes. Some will say no. But it is usually unnecessary unless the top ply is delicate.

      .....an aside, when it is stated that sealing changes the playing characteristics of the blade, it is usually stated with the assumption that changing the playing characteristics is always an unwanted outcome. Sometimes that is not quite the case. But you would still be better off getting a blade you like rather than trying to change the playing characteristics of a blade you don’t like.

      So sealing is still simply a choice for each player.

      Sent from my NSA SpyPhone from Sector 13D-SR13Z74 Sub Level 29X Fort Meade, Maryland
      Well said. This is all the info about sealing anyone needs. /Thread.

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    12. Top | #10
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by RidTheKid View Post
      I use w968 which has a limba outer, I experienced pretty heavy splintering on one of my 968's. Had to pull off wooded splinters from the rubbers and glue them back as nicely as I could. It didn't turn out 100% I'm wondering if it's more difficult to avoid splintering when the rubbers has been attached on the blade longer than shorter amount of time? So far I haven't reglued often since I don't play more than 2-3 times a month.
      Leaving on for longer can cause the rubber to be harder to remove. And this is one of the reasons a thin coat of sealant can be useful. It will make it so the rubber comes off more easily and those splinters won't happen.

      Here is the link to the thread I made one time while Der_Echte was crashing at my place while he was in NYC for a few days:

      https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/for...ing-Your-Blade

      The first post in the thread is a video of Der_Echte filming me sealing a blade. In the video you see I wipe each side a second time without adding more Wipe On Poly. That is me wiping off any excess. In the video I seal the edge of the blade as well. I like to do that. It protects the edge and makes it so it is a touch harder to damage the edge. I put more on the edge than on the blade face. But it is hard to see.

      But the video gives you a good feel for how long it takes and how simple it is to do. I am joking that I am putting a lot on the paper towel. I put enough for it to sink into the paper towel so that, as I wipe it leaves a very thin layer.

      Good luck.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:09 PM.

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    14. Top | #11
      Simas is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by bbanzai View Post
      ...would like to fit rubbers to it using self-adhesive sheets (XVT ones I got on eBay). I never used these sheets and don’t know how “aggressive” they are to the blade surface...
      a little bit off-topic, but why did you chose to use self-adhesive sheets instead of glue?

      P.S. Never had any splintering problem with my Stiga OFF. But maybe that's just my case...

    15. Top | #12
      bbanzai is offline
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      I’d like to experiment with different rubbers and I thought the adhesive sheets would simplify removal of rubbers without damaging blade or sponge. But now I have second thoughts ...

      Quote Originally Posted by Simas View Post
      a little bit off-topic, but why did you chose to use self-adhesive sheets instead of glue?

      P.S. Never had any splintering problem with my Stiga OFF. But maybe that's just my case...

    16. Top | #13
      yogi_bear is offline
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      Even wenge has a tendency to splinter. I suggest using a cloth as an applicator instead of a brush to make the seal very thin.

    17. Top | #14
      Simas is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by bbanzai View Post
      I’d like to experiment with different rubbers and I thought the adhesive sheets would simplify removal of rubbers without damaging blade or sponge. But now I have second thoughts ...
      I see. If you use adhesive sheets, let us know your thoughts. Never used them. For me- gluing is some sort of ritual -preparing my sword for some ninja action

    18. Top | #15
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      You must seal your Stiga blades.

    19. Top | #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by bbanzai View Post
      Hi, I just got a brand new Stiga Nostalgic Offensive and would like to fit rubbers to it using self-adhesive sheets (XVT ones I got on eBay). I never used these sheets and don’t know how “aggressive” they are to the blade surface. Should I seal the blade before sticking the rubbers? In the past I only sealed old Stiga blades, using a Donic water-based coating.
      Thanks for any suggestions you may have.

      Take care, BB
      Not sure about Wenge, but adhesive sheets have always caused splintering with Limba for me. The JOOLA blade sealant I used did not provide adequate protection even with multiple layers. And without sealant, depending upon how much water-based glue you use, the top surface *can* be permeated by water and remain wet for a very long time, which also affects feel.

      Personally, I do not change rubber sheets frequently, so the safest way to attach them for me is VOC glue. Nothing gets damaged, the feel remains consistently top notch because you need only a very thin layer of glue and it dries fast and completely, and the glue remains strong for the life of the rubber sheets. I do not boost.

    20. Top | #17
      lasta is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Jabugo View Post
      Not sure about Wenge, but adhesive sheets have always caused splintering with Limba for me. The JOOLA blade sealant I used did not provide adequate protection even with multiple layers. And without sealant, depending upon how much water-based glue you use, the top surface *can* be permeated by water and remain wet for a very long time, which also affects feel.

      Personally, I do not change rubber sheets frequently, so the safest way to attach them for me is VOC glue. Nothing gets damaged, the feel remains consistently top notch because you need only a very thin layer of glue and it dries fast and completely, and the glue remains strong for the life of the rubber sheets. I do not boost.
      Best yet is to use VOC glue on the blade and water based on the sponge. When removing, all the glue is stuck on the rubber and can be peeled.

    21. Top | #18
      yogi_bear is offline
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      Even with both glues used, it is possible to splinter.

    22. Top | #19
      darucla is offline
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      The problem with brand names is that they may have limited availability in other countries. Hence Miniwax Wipe On Poly in Amazon UK is £96./pint. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wipe-On-Pol.../dp/B003W06L0S Incidentally not even a UK pint. I just went into a local hardware store, not a chain, and enquired about the best products. But thin layer is the way to go.

    23. Top | #20
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by darucla View Post
      The problem with brand names is that they may have limited availability in other countries. Hence Miniwax Wipe On Poly in Amazon UK is £96./pint. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wipe-On-Pol.../dp/B003W06L0S Incidentally not even a UK pint. I just went into a local hardware store, not a chain, and enquired about the best products. But thin layer is the way to go.
      Wipe On Poly is a convenience. All it is is poly sealant that MinWax thins so you can apply with a cloth.

      If you get a small can of any poly sealant and a thinner like mineral spirits and make a 50/50 blend, it will be pretty much what Wipe On Poly is. No need for the brand name. Any hardware store will have the poly and the thinner. And at a decent hardware store, the guys who work there should know the best solvent to thin the sealant.

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