Opinions wanted on disputed point and lack of officiating

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I have some questions about this disputed edge/side point. I slowed the video down to .25, but still don't have a definitive opinion due to the camera angle. What is the general consensus - edge or side?

Most importantly, I'm quite shocked at the lack of participation by any officials. After all, it is the finals and the difference between first and second place is $1,250 USD. In watching the entire video, I don't see any official in either of the chairs to the sides of the court. I hear one official's voice telling the players to play the point over if they can't agree on the point. ?? Isn't it his job to be seated at a good angle to make the decision after the point? He mentions that the rules prohibit him looking at a video to make a decision. With today's technology, that does not make any sense. A disputed point at 12-12 in the fifth and final game. Let the official and the players take a quick look and any official or unofficial videos of the point.

I'm Curious to know if other board members here agree with me on this point and do they also agree with me that what happened here was an unacceptable lack of proper officiating?




<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9KpqrKb6C-0?start=2505" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>
 
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says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
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I took a snippet of the chopper right before he impacted the ball.

By his hip being right in middle of table and arm bent right before impact, there is no way he is impacting the ball past the side line. He might be close, but not past.

This is the consideration I use.

If a player hits a disputed edge, I look to see if they impacted the ball between both corners (inside the side line). If so, it is highly unlikely they hit side of table with a sidespin going from outside the table coming back to it to hit side if it is mostly a forward stroke. Not happening.

I would give the point to the chopper.

It looked like there was umpire, but out of view from camera, scorekeeping was happening, maybe both were on left of camera or one did both.

Looks like Rich Dewitt in the background watching the action. Good ole Rich.

Chop12.JPG
 
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it was side based on what Der_echte explained ... there is no way a side under ball is going to come from outside the table and impact the edge and go down after hitting it has to pop up .. having said that .. the video quality is not good enough to judge clearly
 
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it was side based on what Der_echte explained ... there is no way a side under ball is going to come from outside the table and impact the edge and go down after hitting it has to pop up .. having said that .. the video quality is not good enough to judge clearly

With long pips, the ball does fade curve sometimes, so it could happen. I agree the video does not give enough evidence for an undisputable decision.
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
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It is hard to tell. Der might be right. He may not be outside of the side line. If he is not, it would be hard to catch the side.

But, if the ball is coming from outside the side line, then there is no way that it is an edge, because, if it was an edge, the ball would not go so straight down. Which also makes me think, maybe he was outside of the side line. Because, even if he caught the edge from over the table, the ball would likely change direction more than that after hitting the edge.

So it is hard to tell. But I think it probably was side. I could be wrong because we really cannot see. But the reason I think this is, if it was edge from outside the side line the ball would have to go out and a little up. If it was edge from over the table where it cannot touch the side, the ball would have changed trajectory significantly more and would have bounced out whether it bounced out and down or out and up. But this ball looks like the trajectory was barely changed as would happen from a ball that slid along the side.

But the umpire did the right thing. The outcome could not be determined so he had them play the point over.
 
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For me its a side.
If you look it carefully on 0.25 speed and you follow the geometry, its well visible that the chopper takes the ball more than a rocket length aside from the table, the counter clockwise spin doesn't seam so heavy to take the ball inside the table, the ball trajectory doesn't seam to go inside the table, and the ball trajectory doesn't seam to change after its contact with the table at least a little bit vertically.
 
says Thanks for the suggestion Splasher! I was going to try...
says Thanks for the suggestion Splasher! I was going to try...
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Seems like an edge to me but maybe I’m biased by the fact I really wanted the looper to lose as his mannerism is so irritating. Judging by position, I would naturally assume it’s an edge, but replaying the point is fair, I wish the chopper had insisted a bit as he would have had good reasons to.It’s unfortunate that when a game is so close, who wins comes often down to luck, I miss the old scoring system.
 
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Perhaps the Tournament Referee should appoint both an Umpire and an assistant Umpire for these matches. The decision would have been that much easier.
 
says The sticky bit is stuck.
says The sticky bit is stuck.
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I also see a side hit, watching the trajectory after table contact as well as the travel towards it.

The decision to replay the point is in my eyes the best option, as long as both players really can commit to that.

If not, it’s the umpire’s decision. Right or wrong, that should be the final word, accepted as such and it’s in everybody’s best interest to accept nd move on.
 
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