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    #1
    Last edited by MOG; 08-24-2020 at 12:59 AM.

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    #2
    Well played!

    I like your duck stance. Now, try to bump that arse out even more (let the whole world see it) and stay low even after serving. Aim for contact point at chest level, not waist. Also, punch more, don't swing.

    Welcome back.

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    #3
    You deserved the win, especially as you let him wear those shorts, which I have irrationally taken against. Is that a University sports hall? looks familiar.

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    #4
    Point 4 @ Hereford

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    #5
    I used spectol and hurricane on clipper and it was the weirdest thing ever. How does the spin feel on your backhand loops?

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    #6
    Well done. I like playing with SP on my BH too. I play with 802 or 802-40. I haven't tried anything special like Spectol or Warran. I rarely see a good BH loop with SP. Usually BH SP loops are slow and returning a slow ball. Usually one just matches the spin.

    I saw so many classic mistakes. I know I am not alone in doing the same. Yes this is a bit of schaden freude. I think too many mistakes are mental.
    Your opponent is so much more agile than I am yet he didn't seem to have his head in the game. I keep seeing him looking elsewhere.

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    #7
    can you give me your impression on the blade itself?

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    #8
    https://youtu.be/2XKdnXdYDuo?t=124

    This is the sound of a good hit with short pimple. If you get that good sound you have done a good stroke. Aim to use the technique that gives you that sound all the time. If you do not get that sound you proably have to long contact with the ball or have not moved the arm fast enough.

    Did you try to play any different this time? can not keep on doing the same thing and expect to win.

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    #9
    Attack serves aggressive with the short pimples, especially long is very very difficult. I think you Will miss to much doing this. Nothing wrong with the stroke just the judgement.

    Play hard against long serves or pushes with Short pimple is more chance. Falck can not Do this well and he is top ten in the world.

    Better to focus on keeping the ball low And vary the placement at long serves and pushes. Aswell try to vary the power ans spin. But if the ball is high you can of course play high. Remember to always come under the ball. Always need to come under the ball with short pimple because of the little grip. Otherwise you Will get No arc whatsoever and it Will not be safe.

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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Lula
    Attack serves aggressive with the short pimples, especially long is very very difficult. I think you Will miss to much doing this. Nothing wrong with the stroke just the judgement.

    Play hard against long serves or pushes with Short pimple is more chance. Falck can not Do this well and he is top ten in the world.

    Better to focus on keeping the ball low And vary the placement at long serves and pushes. Aswell try to vary the power ans spin. But if the ball is high you can of course play high. Remember to always come under the ball. Always need to come under the ball with short pimple because of the little grip. Otherwise you Will get No arc whatsoever and it Will not be safe.
    Lula, what's your approach to looping these mid/long backspin serves and pushes? "quick loop" using mostly forearm snap or full body brush? I find the quick loop more consistent, but lacking in spin and pace, very easily counter-attacked. Whereas the full brush loop often causes me recovery time, kills the tempo for follow up shots. Have you found a middle ground?

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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by lasta
    Lula, what's your approach to looping these mid/long backspin serves and pushes? "quick loop" using mostly forearm snap or full body brush? I find the quick loop more consistent, but lacking in spin and pace, very easily counter-attacked. Whereas the full brush loop often causes me recovery time, kills the tempo for follow up shots. Have you found a middle ground?
    with short pimple or inverted?

    Proably also depends on what kind of ball you get against you, what you can do and have time to do. Important to react to what comes and not make up your mind beforehand.

    I think that the opening loop do not have to have very good pace and spin all the time. As long as you vary the placement and try to change the pace and spin. Keeping the ball low is proably most important.

    if you have the spinniest opening loop in the world and always put it in the same place the loop is not so good anymore. It is the same thing as serves. If you vary the placement and vary it the serve is good, and you really do not need to have very much amount of spin. Talked to Jon Persson and he said Samsonovs serve is like this, nothings special but really good variation in placement, he can put it anywhere.

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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Lula
    with short pimple or inverted?

    Proably also depends on what kind of ball you get against you, what you can do and have time to do. Important to react to what comes and not make up your mind beforehand.

    I think that the opening loop do not have to have very good pace and spin all the time. As long as you vary the placement and try to change the pace and spin. Keeping the ball low is proably most important.

    if you have the spinniest opening loop in the world and always put it in the same place the loop is not so good anymore. It is the same thing as serves. If you vary the placement and vary it the serve is good, and you really do not need to have very much amount of spin. Talked to Jon Persson and he said Samsonovs serve is like this, nothings special but really good variation in placement, he can put it anywhere.
    Yes, short pips. These days I'm practicing single-side penhold.

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    #13
    Like i Said i think it depends on the ball. Hitting hard with short pimple against backspin is difficult and easiest if the ball pops up a little. If the ball is to low the Margin is not there to play hard.

    I think there is No correct or wrong ways with technique.

    The few Times i try to play hard against backspin i focus mostly ton the forearm snap and like always try to come under the ball, proably even more now because i can not create arc with pimples if i come under the ball. I feel that if i want to play hard i need to hit the ball very fast with the arm and i find this easiest with mostly forearm. Also have very little time, if the ball drops down it is diffixult to play hard.

    If the ball is to hard to play hard i try ro open low with spin and good placement. Here i think i use the body a little more because i have time. But i have issues that i drop the ball down to much so i an forced to loop alot upwards which can make the ball high.

    I think i mostly use forearm against regular pushes because i feel that i enough. The spin comes from the forearm and power from body. Against choppers i use Alot more body because the arm is not enough.

    You also make it sound that it is two different strokes. Important to explode at contact if you want a good quality ball. Maybe not necessary when hou play soft. So i try to Do just a little fast motion with the body, important to stop rhe motion with the stomach. CAn not just Do one big motion with the body because then the power Will go away. Need to be short, explosive and stop and at the same time as the arm.

    I have problems with that when i move the body it feels like the aem moves together way to late. So i so not know how much i benefit from the body. So i need to work on the timing.

    But i Will continue to always to use a little body when playing forehand because i feel you get much more control because the stroke becomes more steadily and then easy to Do the same. Just arm and it is hard to Do the same. I also feel that i can ger more power. But can not use the body and Do a long slow motion with it, then i get No power especially with pimples where We need to have short contact. But at slower strokes We proably so not need to be as explosive.

    I think you can save time. If you Do a pretty good opening loop you know that almost everyone Will block the ball. If you know that youcan move a little before hand. Take a little step out so you have space, higher the arm a little because you know the ball Will have topspin and be ready ro play more forward and Do a counter or smash. I think that if you lose time on the second ball your motion with the body is way to big.

    May i ask why you use only one side? Must be really diffixult nowadays ans you need to be very fit.

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    #14
    Thanks for the detailed reply! I know we are hijacking the thread, but I don't think anyone would regret reading this.

    In the past yes, can expect a block from a decent quality loop. But I've been playing against better players lately who will counter attack anything close to a "slow loop". Maybe I was looking too much for safety margin and too much energy is wasted brushing upwards. I'll try training the snap/explode with limited body movement, thanks. Yes, syncing body and arm is a problem for me too.

    As for single sided penhold. Long story short, and I'm changed a few different styles over the years. But after having a good coach work with me on RPB for ~8 months, it still didn't feel natural. The optimal grip, racket weight, stance etc all needed to be changed and I felt every little improvement to RPB required sacrifices for either the forehand or traditional backhand (I refused to give up TPB altogether). I found that in order to have a strong and reliable RPB, I had to grip the racket in a way that traditional blocks are nearly impossible against heavy topspin, and no matter what you do, RPB didn't have enough angle control to replace traditional blocking.

    Lately, I worked out a fairly consistent traditional backhand loop which I used against long serves/pushes, but yes, backhand attacks are at most a jab nowadays, and I do miss the rpb flicks. Short pips only makes smashing very good, but everything to get to the smashing phase becomes harder, haha.

    I know it's a dying style, but I enjoy it, and have no intentions on turning pro.

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    #15
    BTW, fit is a big problem haha! I can maintain aggression for 2.5 sets, anything after that, I turn into a blocking partner.

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    #16
    As long as you try to stop rhe motion with the body and not keep being relaxed.

    I think you drop the ball down to low then so you Do a to high loop. Or is the placement to bad. Hard for them to counter hard if the loop is low and they Do not know where the ball is coming. But same here. You can get ready for the opening loop to make it better. Proably there are patterns. When i serve short backspin sidebackspin i know they Will push short or long so i get ready to attack. Them if you know that they mostly push long you know this and can cheat little. Same for the opening loop, if you know he Will counter your loop you can get ready to block or counterloop back.

    Or avoid to get to open at all. Long pushes against the short pimple is the worst ball. Better to get spin against you with short pimple. Especially onesided i think. Maybe serve more sidetopspin, Nospin so they flip, half long so they loop soft or long fast so you can block countersmash. By doing this you avoid heavy pushes against you.

    Okey i see. I thought penholders change grip alot. Not possible to Do two strokes with one grip. Did you try this?

    Look up toshio tasaki or something like that. Japanese short pimple player. Crazy backhand smash.

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    #17
    Yes, the side/top serves work well, but I get punished when the opponent gets used to them and start flipping aggressively.

    Grip change depends on philosophy. If you see Liu Guoliang's videos, he changes grip for every stroke (3 fingers forehand, fully curled TPB, partially curled 2 finger RPB etc), I'm nowhere near his level of anticipation to make such drastic changes. I tried to, but feel more secure by maintaining (almost) the same grip for all shots.

    Tasaki moves like a monkey! And yes, great backhand, almost a bit like Zhuang Zedong. But too little videos of him. I'm taking notes on Kaii Yoshida, Kim Taeksoo and RSM. Not short pips, but their backhand loop are all very good.

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    #18
    BTW, timing and ball drop is a big issue, thanks for pointing it out. I tend to hit at or just after it starts to drop. Maybe I'm just not getting enough racket speed, but looping backspin on the rise is a high error shot for me.

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    #19
    If they can flip so aggressive that you get problem i think you need to vary the serve more. Sometimes downsidespin with the same motion, vary the placement and not serve to short. If you Do this i think the opponent can not flip so hard that you loose the point. Sometimes Maybe But not all the time. And you know that the flip proably Will come.

    I still think you need to change between TPB and RPB. Do not think it is possible to Do one with the same grip well. If i would use penhold i would Do so i could use RPB and smash with the forehand if i use short pimple on the forehand. Very limited to use one side with only short pimple. If you have not played this way for the last 5,10,20 years i think you should try to change.

    I try to work on looping more forward against backspin if the ball is a bit higher. But i feel like i get less arc But as long as the ball is higher than the net and i take it on the highest point i think i still have some margin for errror. If the ball is low i need to loop more upward to get good margin and safety.

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    #20
    Yes, sorry, way off topic. I was more concerned about forehand looping with short pips, but don't see why it would be different for backhand. Focus on lower racket position, aim for good snap, control excess motion, and just enough arc to clear the net.

    But all that is just to get a return high enough to smash/punch, which is where pips do best. For you, I still don't see you hitting flat enough, hope the next video would see you with Fukuhara's shadow. PUNCH more! Stop swinging. Anything above net can be hit flat.

    And yes, blade makes a big difference, especially in the feel. For flat hits, sound is a good indicator of a quality shot. But you also want to feel the ball digging in, blade flexing, then stops flexing (walled-off feel), this is when the loud crack happens (blade reaches "terminal flex" and ball deforms/pops). It may be difficult to hit hard enough from the backhand, but try to get as close to that "pop" as you can.

    I know this is all subjective, but I still think the crackle-pop feedback from a fast and solid wood blade to be better than composite (too dull, not enough feedback).
    Last edited by lasta; 07-10-2019 at 02:48 AM.

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