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    1. Top | #401
      Nemo is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by usualsuspect View Post
      The part about using his legs is right. I'm more worried about the kid's excessive arm and shoulder movement.
      The correct/efficient way to do FH stroke is have your elbow relatively fixed next to your body. The forearm swings freely with the body's rotation when the right leg (for right handed players) pushes the hips to provide power for the rotation. This way, the arm, the body, and the legs work cohesively together to complete each FH stroke. Once you master this, you can gradually let your entire arm swing like a whip with body rotation. Your arm and shoulder should be relaxed, because your arm and shoulder aren't the main provider of power for FH stroke.
      If you look at Mizutani's FH stroke, his FH is an extreme opposite example to Harimoto's. Mizutani keeps his elbow too rigidly fixed to the side of his body. He doesn't let his forearm swing freely with body rotation. This rigidity decreases Mizutani's FH power, but increases control, consistency, and recovery speed. This explains why Mizutani can stay in topspin rallies for a long time and get almost any shots back on to the table.
      Harimoto's arm and shoulder don't work together with his legs. His elbow isn't sync'ed to his body rotation. He has too much arm movement. This is why he has slower recovery on FH strokes and more inconsistencies. This is also why Harimoto has to resort to flat hitting more frequently than other players.
      You are welcome on the FH lesson. Much easier said then done though, at least Harimoto couldn't.

      A bit off-topic, but I feel like every other time I see your posts you randomly give tt "lessons" no one asks for, to then proudly say something to the effect of "you are welcome".

      You seem to be fuller of yourself than a rain barrel after a heavy rainstorm.

      Just an observation.

    2. Top | #402
      NextLevel is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by usualsuspect View Post
      The part about using his legs is right. I'm more worried about the kid's excessive arm and shoulder movement.
      The correct/efficient way to do FH stroke is have your elbow relatively fixed next to your body. The forearm swings freely with the body's rotation when the right leg (for right handed players) pushes the hips to provide power for the rotation. This way, the arm, the body, and the legs work cohesively together to complete each FH stroke. Once you master this, you can gradually let your entire arm swing like a whip with body rotation. Your arm and shoulder should be relaxed, because your arm and shoulder aren't the main provider of power for FH stroke.
      If you look at Mizutani's FH stroke, his FH is an extreme opposite example to Harimoto's. Mizutani keeps his elbow too rigidly fixed to the side of his body. He doesn't let his forearm swing freely with body rotation. This rigidity decreases Mizutani's FH power, but increases control, consistency, and recovery speed. This explains why Mizutani can stay in topspin rallies for a long time and get almost any shots back on to the table.
      Harimoto's arm and shoulder don't work together with his legs. His elbow isn't sync'ed to his body rotation. He has too much arm movement. This is why he has slower recovery on FH strokes and more inconsistencies. This is also why Harimoto has to resort to flat hitting more frequently than other players.
      You are welcome on the FH lesson. Much easier said then done though, at least Harimoto couldn't.
      I agree with all of this, but you miss the point that the back has to be used to hit the ball if you want to loop and fix your elbow. He has too much arm because he is trying to avoid using his back.
      Last edited by NextLevel; 20 Hours Ago at 06:43 PM.
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    3. Top | #403
      NextLevel is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Nemo View Post
      A bit off-topic, but I feel like every other time I see your posts you randomly give tt "lessons" no one asks for, to then proudly say something to the effect of "you are welcome".

      You seem to be fuller of yourself than a rain barrel after a heavy rainstorm.

      Just an observation.
      He already said that Harimoto was a JNT product and then said that Harimoto doesn't have a JNT forehand. That doesn't mean he doesn't know what he is saying but he can drop the pretentiousness whenever he wants to.

    4. Top | #404
      usualsuspect is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      He already said that Harimoto was a JNT product and then said that Harimoto doesn't have a JNT forehand. That doesn't mean he doesn't know what he is saying but he can drop the pretentiousness whenever he wants to.
      Harimoto is a part of JNT though, so possible bad quality control on their players?
      I mean CNT is famous for producing looping robots who all play the same style, according to some people.

    5. Top | #405
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      Quote Originally Posted by usualsuspect View Post
      I totally agree Harimoto is entirely a product of JNT training. This would explain his terrible FH stroke. His FH stroke would NEVER be allowed in CNT.
      I remember last year everyone was going crazy about Harimoto and talking about how he'll be a great threat to the CNT, I was like "nah..." based on his FH stroke alone.

      Now, LYJ is totally a different story. He will become a much bigger threat to the CNT soon. XX is right. LYJ needs to work on his attitude and demeanor, he needs to project more confidence and aggression like Harimoto.
      For now, Wang Chuqin still holds a slight edge over LYJ in terms of shot quality. I hope WCQ recovers from his injury and keep up with LYJ. These two might be close rivals for the next decade.
      Why do you mean LYJ has to work on his attitude and demeanor? He has one the best attitudes in this sport I've seen. Playing in the zone, which I believe he is when playing, doesn't require much of the attitude or anything else. If you notice mild smile on his lips, you would notice peace and tranquility, which is for me of utmost importance in this sport which requires a great deal of focus and mental alertness.

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    7. Top | #406
      usualsuspect is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Nemo View Post
      A bit off-topic, but I feel like every other time I see your posts you randomly give tt "lessons" no one asks for, to then proudly say something to the effect of "you are welcome".

      You seem to be fuller of yourself than a rain barrel after a heavy rainstorm.

      Just an observation.
      Yeah, you are right. Thanks for the reminder.
      But I only give lessons to NextLevel, coz he needs it.
      You don't see me do this lesson thing with other people, do you?
      Coz most people keep open mind and learn when presented with good/new information, NextLevel challenges everyone on everything (with bad/wrong information no less)... So giving him a lesson once in a while is good for him.

      Am I still fuller than a rain barrel after a heavy rainstorm? You decide.

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    9. Top | #407
      Der_Echte is offline
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      Der_Echte is prolly more full of it than the poster(s) in question, but I prolly crack more jokes.

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      Last edited by Der_Echte; 20 Hours Ago at 06:36 PM.
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    11. Top | #408
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      Quote Originally Posted by usualsuspect View Post
      Harimoto is a part of JNT though, so possible bad quality control on their players?
      I mean CNT is famous for producing looping robots who all play the same style, according to some people.
      He had his forehand issues before he got on the JNT and I have explained that it is not clearly a decision because while the stroke uses too much arm, it protects your back.

      You get on national teams because of your results not because of your technique. The coaches will fix technique if you have the talent.

    12. Top | #409
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    13. Top | #410
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      He had his forehand issues before he got on the JNT and I have explained that it is not clearly a decision because while the stroke uses too much arm, it protects your back.

      You get on national teams because of your results not because of your technique. The coaches will fix technique if you have the talent.
      What are you talking about? CNT or KNT will never accept a player with such glaring FH problem, regardless of your "talent". It's called a standard. (Also, think about what you are saying, you are implying that a truly talented player is unable to correctly learn the most basic FH stroke).
      And that's why JNT will never surpass CNT or KNT, unless JNT raises their standard.
      Btw, Korea has two olympic gold medals in men's single, Japan has none.

    14. Top | #411
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      Quote Originally Posted by usualsuspect View Post
      What are you talking about? CNT or KNT will never accept a player with such glaring FH problem, regardless of your "talent". It's called a standard. (Also, think about what you are saying, you are implying that a truly talented player is unable to correctly learn the most basic FH stroke).
      And that's why JNT will never surpass CNT or KNT, unless JNT raises their standard.
      Btw, Korea has two olympic gold medals in men's single, Japan has none.
      Yeah I have heard such things before and the CNT was not going to accept Deng Yaping either but look at how that turned out. The bottom line is that if a player is beating everyone, he or she is beating everyone. There may be things you will not accept but you can't argue with results. When he loses or fails to win, you can deal with it in a variety of ways.

      As for the footwork and forehand standard, look at JYS. As I pointed out, such things are not about arguments, but about results. JYS doesn't have a great forehand, but he beats his peers so no one is going to keep him off the team. The fact that Korea has more golds is just fun to know. If in 1988 they hadn't made other players travel an hour to the stadium while their players stayed close, would they have won those golds? Sometimes we can infer what we want from accidents as well as incidents.

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    16. Top | #412
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      Quote Originally Posted by usualsuspect View Post
      Yeah, you are right. Thanks for the reminder.
      But I only give lessons to NextLevel, coz he needs it.
      You don't see me do this lesson thing with other people, do you?
      Coz most people keep open mind and learn when presented with good/new information, NextLevel challenges everyone on everything (with bad/wrong information no less)... So giving him a lesson once in a while is good for him.

      Am I still fuller than a rain barrel after a heavy rainstorm? You decide.
      My biggest mentor as a coach (and a good friend) told me that good coaches disagree all the time. Everyone knows the fundamentals but there are opinions as well.

      Pretending to know everything just ends up making you look like an idiot over time. My solution is simple - everyone knows my relatively low playing level (roughly USATT 2000) and physical limitations, so they can put my statements in context.

    17. Top | #413
      yoass is offline
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      Deng Yaping is a forceful argument indeed! This I did not know. Tnx, NL!

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    19. Top | #414
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      Yeah I have heard such things before and the CNT was not going to accept Deng Yaping either but look at how that turned out. The bottom line is that if a player is beating everyone, he or she is beating everyone. There may be things you will not accept but you can't argue with results. When he loses or fails to win, you can deal with it in a variety of ways.

      As for the footwork and forehand standard, look at JYS. As I pointed out, such things are not about arguments, but about results. JYS doesn't have a great forehand, but he beats his peers so no one is going to keep him off the team. The fact that Korea has more golds is just fun to know. If in 1988 they hadn't made other players travel an hour to the stadium while their players stayed close, would they have won those golds? Sometimes we can infer what we want from accidents as well as incidents.

      Sure, let's allow results to decide things.
      Are you really comfortable comparing Harimoto to Deng Yaping?
      Are you implying that Harimoto will reach Deng's level of success in table tennis?
      If that's the case, I can tell you right now that Harimoto will NEVER come close to Deng Yaping in tt and save you 20 years of waiting and observation.

    20. Top | #415
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      My biggest mentor as a coach (and a good friend) told me that good coaches disagree all the time. Everyone knows the fundamentals but there are opinions as well.

      Pretending to know everything just ends up making you look like an idiot over time. My solution is simple - everyone knows my relatively low playing level (roughly USATT 2000) and physical limitations, so they can put my statements in context.
      I never pretend to know everything, but you keep saying that. Is it because that's how you really feel?
      Besides, I learn from others all the time. My knowledge doesn't come from vacuum.
      I just have the ability to separate good information from BS.

    21. Top | #416
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis View Post
      Very complete view indeed.

      However as much as I like Lin going to the top. I like to add, his current WR16 is actually unwarranted for if we still use the old system.
      Since he has been featuring in R32/R16 most of the time. I think either than the one final, he shouldn't really have enough points to get into the top 20.

      So this is both pros and cons.
      I guess without Lin in the top 20, he wouldn't be as confident.
      Now I just hope he gets into Top10, so he can get more budget allocation
      Sorry I'm answering indirectly but Jesper that was a very good post, thanks.

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    23. Top | #417
      Ioiettino is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by usualsuspect View Post
      I totally agree Harimoto is entirely a product of JNT training. This would explain his terrible FH stroke. His FH stroke would NEVER be allowed in CNT.
      I remember last year everyone was going crazy about Harimoto and talking about how he'll be a great threat to the CNT, I was like "nah..." based on his FH stroke alone.

      Now, LYJ is totally a different story. He will become a much bigger threat to the CNT soon. XX is right. LYJ needs to work on his attitude and demeanor, he needs to project more confidence and aggression like Harimoto.
      He doesn't have to, and I hope he doesn't. The nerve it would take to perform the way he did at T2, you can feel he enters that mental zone and he's making abstraction of it all. A monster of focus in that tournament, including in the 5-point games that were so discussed here. Part of that maturity Tony was talking about is not to get carried away too much emotionally, although I agree it's a bit surprising to see him stone cold even as he wins the final! Pretty sure he's feeling all of it inside, to keep that kind of dedication the will that's required is insane.

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