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    1. Top | #281
      NextLevel is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis View Post
      The same "fake match" rules that you are debating that affected Ma Long also affected Lin
      So I can't understand why alternative serving is now a problem for a grand slam wold champion that some call the GOAT

      If you say Ma Long is just in bad form, then i'm cool
      But making all these excuses is just really excuses.
      Ma Long took it very serious but he just had no answer to Lin BH winners and Lin's close to table off the bounce attacks
      It has nothing to do with this "fake" match, or "special" rules
      It is like saying that rule changes affect someone who had been playing for 20 years the same way your affect someone who has been playing for 5 years. The score of the real match was 2-2. Alternate serving without ending the match is a feature of expedite and Ma Long is not a defender. Ma Long depends on his serve heavily so one serve instead of 2 affects his serving patterns.

      Credit to Lin for playing well. But the scoring system for fast 5 is not a real match. The real match was 2-2. Lin won the tie breaker but inam also one of those people who considers CSL first to seven in the 5th matches and Russian league matches without deuce fake matches. When we start playing those formats in the Olympics I will change my mind.
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    3. Top | #282
      Peter Porai-Koshits is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      Any discussion is premature at this point. 1st of all, many players are visibly drained after 2 months of non-stop action. Quite a few of them are also not familiar with the match format. It won't hurt to wait until the next 2 stops of T2 wrap up before making judgment.
      I do not agree with you. I gave the arguments why the new rules fail. You suggest simply not to discuss it. Ridiculous.

      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      FWIW, some of the netizens on Tieba state that they actually find the T2 match format very exciting and enjoyable.

      https://tieba.baidu.com/p/6200088322

      (In addition, when the ITTF changed the World Ranking system, there was also an outcry.
      New ranking system is ok. But this does not mean that all other changes are also automatically good.

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    5. Top | #283
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      Quote Originally Posted by Peter Porai-Koshits View Post
      A little thought.

      Parties in table tennis can be divided into two types - with the overwhelming advantage of one player, a total of 16 points or less (11-5.11-3, etc.) and with more or less equal game, 17 points or more (11-8 , 11-9 and so on).

      I argue that the second type (equal game) is more interesting.

      Similarly, matches. The overwhelming advantage (4-0, 4-1) and equal fight (4-2, 4-3). And again, I assert that equal fight is more interesting.

      A separate intermediate case when 4-0, but in all games equal fight is 11-9 or something like that, but for now we’ll omit this option.

      So, if you look from this point of view - an equal fight is more interesting - the new rules of the game at the T2 tournament reduce the time of the competition almost exclusively due to interesting games and matches, and practically do not affect less interesting games with an overwhelming advantage.

      Thus, I argue that the "average interest of competition" due to these rules decreases, since everything that is boring remains, and the interesting is greatly cutted.

      And that means (for me) unsuccessful rule changes.

      Does anyone see flaws in these arguments?
      I think that there is excitement in variation sometimes and that the shorter games introduce a larger degree of variation. I suspect that they will play with the T2 formula a bit more before the next event. I think they might give more time to regulation as of they want more best of 11 games. But I don't see anything wrong with the current format as it allows players to control risk (win in 4 or amass a lead) and gives the player behind a chance at the end of the match if they can take advantage of risky streakiness.

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    7. Top | #284
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      It is like saying that rule changes affect someone who had been playing for 20 years the same way your affect someone who has been playing for 5 years. The score of the real match was 2-2. Alternate serving without ending the match is a feature of expedite and Ma Long is not a defender. Ma Long depends on his serve heavily so one serve instead of 2 affects his serving patterns.

      Credit to Lin for playing well. But the scoring system for fast 5 is not a real match. The real match was 2-2. Lin won the tie breaker but inam also one of those people who considers CSL first to seven in the 5th matches and Russian league matches without deuce fake matches. When we start playing those formats in the Olympics I will change my mind.
      since you raise chinese super league with 7 point.
      I'm going to end with that Ma Long and other CNT members are more equip with these rules than any other player.

      In closed training they have been doing 8-8 or 7-8 or 6-8 come backs to 11 (no deuces) for how many years now, maybe 5-10 years already.

      So for Ma Long who can't even adapt to his own training method, and his many years of experience with the 7 point
      then yeah, Ma Long is just not good enough
      BYE BYE

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    9. Top | #285
      mart1nandersson is offline
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      Seriously how can you argue that it wasn’t a real match? It’s gentlemen’s sport. You agree on the rules and play the match. The winner wins. Simple as. It doesn’t matter if you play to 5, 11, 21 or tennis styled scoring.
      Last edited by mart1nandersson; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:35 PM.

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    11. Top | #286
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis View Post
      since you raise chinese super league with 7 point.
      I'm going to end with that Ma Long and other CNT members are more equip with these rules than any other player.

      In closed training they have been doing 8-8 or 7-8 or 6-8 come backs to 11 (no deuces) for how many years now, maybe 5-10 years already.

      So for Ma Long who can't even adapt to his own training method, and his many years of experience with the 7 point
      then yeah, Ma Long is just not good enough
      But you forget that those training methods are not the same as this format. In the end, I know what you think. You know what I think let's agree to disagree. Alternate serving, no deuce, is unlike anything in table tennis. It doesn't mean that Lin didn't win or Ma Long didn't choke but that this is not a standard (real) match. When it was real, the score was 2-2. In any alternate serving system that is not expedite in TT, the match ends when you win two or three consecutive points.
      Last edited by NextLevel; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:37 PM.

    12. Top | #287
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      But you forget that those training methods are not the same as this format. In the end, I know what you think. You know what I think let's agree to disagree. Alternate serving, no deuce, is unlike anything in table tennis. It doesn't mean that Lin didn't win or Ma Long didn't choke but that this is not a standard (real) match. When it was real, the score was 2-2. In any alternate serving system that is not expedite in TT, the match ends when you win two or three consecutive points.
      Ma Long had enough training of no deuces in match practices.
      He has so much more resource to get to be a GOAT
      one small little thing that is new to him is new to everyone else.
      What I am saying is, Ma Long has more advantage to this than Lin, and i'm sure you can't deny this.
      Lin till this day has not experience 7, and where he trains, he doesn't have much resources at all.

      Also NL, you better get used to ITTF and its habit of changing rules every year or two.
      Change is coming (i'm afraid)
      I hope that in your eyes, your real is not defined by 38mm in 21 point with all the other bunch of old rules
      The real TT to me is what is happening now and as a coach, my job is to get the players to adapt to what ever is expected. No excuses.
      Last edited by Tony's Table Tennis; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:46 PM.

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    14. Top | #288
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      In my opinion its clearly ML was injury. He almost couldn't move. He barely move and bend his right leg

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    16. Top | #289
      zyu81 is offline
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      I rarely hear people hypothesizing about non-Chinese players being injured as the justification for their losses.

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    18. Top | #290
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      Lin Yun Ju obviously outplayed Ma Long this time, give him a credit !

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    20. Top | #291
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      Quote Originally Posted by mart1nandersson View Post
      Seriously how can you argue that it wasn’t a real match? It’s gentlemen’s sport. You agree on the rules and play the match. The winner wins. Simple as. It doesn’t matter if you play to 5, 11, 21 or tennis styled scoring.
      Aye

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    21. Top | #292
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      I dont understand why the so called "shorter option - T2" would be taken seriously. Its not like the "longer format - 11 pts" takes hours on end to complete a game. Endurance of the athlete should also be tested.

    22. Top | #293
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      I'm quite sad for my boy Liang Jinkun, it seems he kinda fell off.

    23. Top | #294
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      The T2 match scoring format provides the underdog with a better opportunity to pull off an upset.

      ML is a very deliberate player, lots of time taken between points, touching the table, bouncing the ball, etc. as he continues to analyze the match situation and deploys changes to tactics that aren't working. The points in T2 matches are being played very rapidly with hardly any delays. IMO this impacted ML's normal playing rhythm and affected him more than changes in the scoring system.

      That coupled with his obvious exhaustion and fighting off some injuries alluded to by XX, ML had a lot of things stacked against him in this event.

      Just my observations, not excuses for ML's loss. His level is so high that he frequently is able to overcome these things. However, LJY played very well and didn't let ML off the hook and grabbed a very well deserved victory.

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    25. Top | #295
      zeio is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Danny21312 View Post
      I don't consider Harimoto and LYJ as Chinese. One is a Japanese with Chinese parents and the other is Taiwanese.
      I'm not so sure. We have a Chinese-looking Jew here who identifies herself as Jewish because her grand grand grandfather was Jewish.


    26. Top | #296
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      Btw, T2 Diamond 2nd round’s qualified players’ list is out. Cut off date July 15.

      https://www.ittf.com/ittf-world-tour...our-standings/

      Top 15 has 9 Chinese women qualified for this round, plus Host Exemption of China’s choice (#16 is Gu Yt). Top european is Szocs at #22.
      Last edited by Tempest/Comet; 4 Weeks Ago at 03:37 AM.

    27. Top | #297
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      Quote Originally Posted by will_999 View Post
      I dont understand why the so called "shorter option - T2" would be taken seriously. Its not like the "longer format - 11 pts" takes hours on end to complete a game. Endurance of the athlete should also be tested.
      Weikert said back in 2014 that TV broadcasters didn't want to carry table tennis because they didn't know how long matches could last. T2 offers an alternative.

      https://www.sportcal.com/News/FeaturedNews/99567
      Weikert is also keen to explore possible means of limiting the duration of matches to provide more certainty for broadcasters, some of which presently baulk at the present system in which matches can last between one and three hours.

      He said: “One set lasts six or seven minutes. Maybe you can shorten it by making the next point decisive after 10-10 [at present a player must win a set by at least two clear points]. These are only ideas, they’re not tested. We have to take care about it. But TV and internet streaming is the future, so it’s worth thinking about small changes.”

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    29. Top | #298
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      I feel like although ML directed his annoyance towards the 'format' of the tournament, he was probably more pissed at himself.

    30. Top | #299
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tempest/Comet View Post
      Btw, T2 Diamond 2nd round’s qualified players’ list is out. Cut off date July 15.

      https://www.ittf.com/ittf-world-tour...our-standings/

      Top 15 has 9 Chinese women qualified for this round, plus Host Exemption of China’s choice (#16 is Gu Yt). Top european is Szocs at #22.
      I wonder .. Will, for example, in the second Diamond play Kato?

    31. Top | #300
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      zeio said
      Weikert said back in 2014 that TV broadcasters didn't want to carry table tennis because they didn't know how long matches could last. T2 offers an alternative.

      Tennis matches are more unpredictable time wise than tt. Just an excuse.

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