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  1. Der_Echte is offline
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    #381
    TTM in 2019 is gunna snatch my Grand Consultant title from me with force and decisiveness… until we get to the eating part of the all-you-can-eat Korean BBQ phase.

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    #382
    Lin Yun Ju ... What a beast !

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  3. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    #383
    Quote Originally Posted by JesperStef
    E

    Correct, he hasn’t played in U21 since Bulgaria Open in August 2018.

    So you’re right about the shift in focus. But I also think that it was difficult for JNT to use the same gradual progression for JNT with Harimoto seeing that he was already very competitive at senior events 2 years ago (like winning the 2017 Czech Open and making deep runs in other senior tournaments at that time).

    Lin has been getting a lot of hype this year - very well deserved, I might add

    Whether he is a bigger talent than Harimoto and has greater potential remains to be seen. Given that Harimoto has also had a meteoric rise over the last few years, I’d say it’s near impossible to judge how both of them are going to develop going forward.

    Much of the debating about this exact issue - the future potential of Harimoto and Lin or other young players like Möregård - also seems to be clouded by heavy bias especially for/against Harimoto.

    No matter what, I am personally very thrilled about the state of international table tennis at the moment:

    - the new World Ranking system has meant that the top players are playing more tournaments now, which means that we get to see an unpresidented number of top level matchups. It also means having to play more matches and travelling more, so it can be hard to perform at top level at every tournament/match and may have contributed to the large number of upsets that we’ve seen this year

    - a number of YOUNG male and female players are now posing serious threats (or potential threats) to the CNT dominance.

    - the CNT are still the best, but not at all unbeatable anymore. All core CNT players have suffered one or several defeats to foreigners this year. The CNT B/C-team players are getting to play many more international tournaments now than before, but they are not yet good/stabile enough, so quite a lot of them are losing out in the really strong qualification events. So now many “foreign” players have beaten one or more Chinese players in 2019 which should make them and others a lot more confident when facing a CNT opponent next time.

    - below the top CNT top players we now have a really large group of international players who are pretty much able to beat each other on any given day. I exaggate, I know, but the results this year have generally been quite unpredictable with many upsets.

    When you put these things together, you get a lot of really STRONG tournaments with a great sense of EXCITEMENT and UNPREDICTABILITY

    I don’t know about all of you, but I love and cherish it
    Very complete view indeed.

    However as much as I like Lin going to the top. I like to add, his current WR16 is actually unwarranted for if we still use the old system.
    Since he has been featuring in R32/R16 most of the time. I think either than the one final, he shouldn't really have enough points to get into the top 20.

    So this is both pros and cons.
    I guess without Lin in the top 20, he wouldn't be as confident.
    Now I just hope he gets into Top10, so he can get more budget allocation

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    BYE BYE

  4. zeio is offline
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    #384
    Quote Originally Posted by NoFootwork
    Wow, just wow. Amazing performance by LJY. Keeping a bit with the tennis comparisons, Bjorn Borg had ice in his veins. LYJ is an iceberg. Zero outward emotions/reactions. Congrats to the kid.

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    Last edited by zeio; 07-22-2019 at 09:31 AM.
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  5. yoass is offline
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    #385
    Quote Originally Posted by zyu81
    I rarely hear people hypothesizing about non-Chinese players being injured as the justification for their losses.
    As far as anecdotal evidence carries, I actually have heard non-Chinese players mentioning injury as a reason for suboptimal gameplay, both incidentally and as reasons for longer bouts of lower performance levels. Boll, Ovtcharov, Maze, Petrissa Solja. Waldner, Schlager, Gatien… I think almost every pro runs into injury, once or twice, and for some it's effectively the end of their career (Maze, ZJK).

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    #386
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis
    Very complete view indeed.

    However as much as I like Lin going to the top. I like to add, his current WR16 is actually unwarranted for if we still use the old system.
    Since he has been featuring in R32/R16 most of the time. I think either than the one final, he shouldn't really have enough points to get into the top 20.

    So this is both pros and cons.
    I guess without Lin in the top 20, he wouldn't be as confident.
    Now I just hope he gets into Top10, so he can get more budget allocation
    Actually, he would be higher ranked in the old system because the strength of who he had beaten (plenty of CNT members, Dima multiple times) would be driving his ranking, not where he has placed in events.

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  7. yoass is offline
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    #387
    Wow, that Xu Xin interview. I already admire him greatly for his game, now I also admire him for his willingness to actually discuss his opponent's performance candidly, without ulterior motives or mindplay shenanigans. He's such a great champ in so many ways.

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    #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Loopadoop
    Don't both have Chinese Ancestry influence from coaches ?
    nop, harimoto is a japanese TT product, born in sendai. His father was chinese yes but it does not matter much. people should realize that chinese tt players/coaches dont have some kind of secret training formula which is better than the rest of the world.

    As for LYJ he is not a chinese product also, taipei top players were forbidden to train with the CNT once chuang chih yuan became a threat (2001-2003 maybe? i dont remember) and was "banned" from the CNT sessions

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  9. yoass is offline
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    #389
    Quote Originally Posted by TTFrenzy
    people should realize that chinese tt players/coaches dont have some kind of secret training formula which is better than the rest of the world.
    Wait, what? You don’t get magical TT superpowers if you step one foot to the left or right at the right spot right before labour commences? Shocking!

  10. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    #390
    Quote Originally Posted by TTFrenzy
    nop, harimoto is a japanese TT product, born in sendai. His father was chinese yes but it does not matter much. people should realize that chinese tt players/coaches dont have some kind of secret training formula which is better than the rest of the world.

    As for LYJ he is not a chinese product also, taipei top players were forbidden to train with the CNT once chuang chih yuan became a threat (2001-2003 maybe? i dont remember) and was "banned" from the CNT sessions
    correct
    however the provincial teams are open for them to train at, this was after they lifted the "ban"
    Chuan was actually training in the CNT B team and had the option of becoming an A team member.
    BYE BYE

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    #391
    TT is a science and Xu Xin is a professor.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeio

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  12. zeio is offline
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    #392
    This week of Table Tennis Japan happens to be on Lin Yun-Ju and Sun Wen. Both are touted to be threats to the JNT. So hilarious.

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    Last edited by zeio; 07-22-2019 at 01:55 PM.
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    #393
    Quote Originally Posted by RidTheKid
    Maybe, but now Franz needs to work even harder. It's easy to get complacent after some success but now he really needs to step on the gas pedal with his practice and match structure. Best would be if he could get into CSL and meet world class players more often. If you don't have anyone to push you to bring out your potential it's never gonna become a real level. My old boss would always say after an employee in his group made a sell with a high order value (work in sales) that "now you've reached a new lowest level" to push us forward, and it works, for those who wanna make it work
    First off, Franziska should totally have beaten WCT! I mean WCT played well, but Franziska should've won!
    In terms of shot quality and topspin rallies, Franz was better than WCT for the most part. It was part luck and part misplays by Franziska that allowed WCT to win the match.
    I think Franziska's techniques are quite good now. He just needs to work more on his mentality. In the second set when Franziska was up by 9-2, he should've kept playing aggressively. But he chose to play more conservatively, hoping that WCT would make errors. That didn't work! The passive mentally only made Franziska play worse while WCT gained confidence and played better.

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    #394
    Quote Originally Posted by TTFrenzy
    nop, harimoto is a japanese TT product, born in sendai. His father was chinese yes but it does not matter much. people should realize that chinese tt players/coaches dont have some kind of secret training formula which is better than the rest of the world.

    As for LYJ he is not a chinese product also, taipei top players were forbidden to train with the CNT once chuang chih yuan became a threat (2001-2003 maybe? i dont remember) and was "banned" from the CNT sessions
    I totally agree Harimoto is entirely a product of JNT training. This would explain his terrible FH stroke. His FH stroke would NEVER be allowed in CNT.
    I remember last year everyone was going crazy about Harimoto and talking about how he'll be a great threat to the CNT, I was like "nah..." based on his FH stroke alone.

    Now, LYJ is totally a different story. He will become a much bigger threat to the CNT soon. XX is right. LYJ needs to work on his attitude and demeanor, he needs to project more confidence and aggression like Harimoto.
    For now, Wang Chuqin still holds a slight edge over LYJ in terms of shot quality. I hope WCQ recovers from his injury and keep up with LYJ. These two might be close rivals for the next decade.

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    #395
    Quote Originally Posted by usualsuspect
    First off, Franziska should totally have beaten WCT! I mean WCT played well, but Franziska should've won!
    In terms of shot quality and topspin rallies, Franz was better than WCT for the most part. It was part luck and part misplays by Franziska that allowed WCT to win the match.
    I think Franziska's techniques are quite good now. He just needs to work more on his mentality. In the second set when Franziska was up by 9-2, he should've kept playing aggressively. But he chose to play more conservatively, hoping that WCT would make errors. That didn't work! The passive mentally only made Franziska play worse while WCT gained confidence and played better.
    just saw the match, how did WCT win by luck? Did he have a string of nets and edges? - didn't see that. As for misplaying - isn't that part of the match?
    Last edited by thom; 07-22-2019 at 04:42 PM.

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    #396
    Quote Originally Posted by usualsuspect
    I totally agree Harimoto is entirely a product of JNT training. This would explain his terrible FH stroke. His FH stroke would NEVER be allowed in CNT.
    I remember last year everyone was going crazy about Harimoto and talking about how he'll be a great threat to the CNT, I was like "nah..." based on his FH stroke alone.

    Now, LYJ is totally a different story. He will become a much bigger threat to the CNT soon. XX is right. LYJ needs to work on his attitude and demeanor, he needs to project more confidence and aggression like Harimoto.
    For now, Wang Chuqin still holds a slight edge over LYJ in terms of shot quality. I hope WCQ recovers from his injury and keep up with LYJ. These two might be close rivals for the next decade.
    Most of his coaching has come from his parents who are Chinese so your logic is weird. I suspect Harimoto's forehand has a different purpose from what most forehands do which is why it doesn't get the job done. Whether it will work out is an open question for me, but I can see why people looking at his forehand have issues with it. But it is not a JNT forehand either.
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    #397
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel
    Most of his coaching has come from his parents who are Chinese so your logic is weird. I suspect Harimoto's forehand has a different purpose from what most forehands do which is why it doesn't get the job done. Whether it will work out is an open question for me, but I can see why people looking at his forehand have issues with it. But it is not a JNT forehand either.
    Yeah yeah yeah, I knew both Harimoto's parents were players from Sichuang provincial team. I said CNT, the emphasis being Chinese NATIONAL Team. That being said, Harimoto probably didn't listen to his father's coaching on FH strokes. I just can't imagine any Chinese provincial player doing Harimoto FH.
    No, it's not a JNT FH neither. Both Mizutani's and Niwa's FH are biomechanically efficient (even if Mizutani's FH is quite ugly), which makes Harimoto's weird FH even more incomprehensible.

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    #398
    Quote Originally Posted by usualsuspect
    Yeah yeah yeah, I knew both Harimoto's parents were players from Sichuang provincial team. I said CNT, the emphasis being Chinese NATIONAL Team. That being said, Harimoto probably didn't listen to his father's coaching on FH strokes. I just can't imagine any Chinese provincial player doing Harimoto FH.
    No, it's not a JNT FH neither. Both Mizutani's and Niwa's FH are biomechanically efficient (even if Mizutani's FH is quite ugly), which makes Harimoto's weird FH even more incomprehensible.
    It is an attempt to protect the lower back and use the legs more. I don't think it is viable but we will see.
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    #399
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel
    It is an attempt to protect the lower back and use the legs more. I don't think it is viable but we will see.
    The part about using his legs is right. I'm more worried about the kid's excessive arm and shoulder movement.
    The correct/efficient way to do FH stroke is have your elbow relatively fixed next to your body. The forearm swings freely with the body's rotation when the right leg (for right handed players) pushes the hips to provide power for the rotation. This way, the arm, the body, and the legs work cohesively together to complete each FH stroke. Once you master this, you can gradually let your entire arm swing like a whip with body rotation. Your arm and shoulder should be relaxed, because your arm and shoulder aren't the main provider of power for FH stroke.
    If you look at Mizutani's FH stroke, his FH is an extreme opposite example to Harimoto's. Mizutani keeps his elbow too rigidly fixed to the side of his body. He doesn't let his forearm swing freely with body rotation. This rigidity decreases Mizutani's FH power, but increases control, consistency, and recovery speed. This explains why Mizutani can stay in topspin rallies for a long time and get almost any shots back on to the table.
    Harimoto's arm and shoulder don't work together with his legs. His elbow isn't sync'ed to his body rotation. He has too much arm movement. This is why he has slower recovery on FH strokes and more inconsistencies. This is also why Harimoto has to resort to flat hitting more frequently than other players.
    You are welcome on the FH lesson. Much easier said then done though, at least Harimoto couldn't.

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    #400
    Quote Originally Posted by usualsuspect
    The part about using his legs is right. I'm more worried about the kid's excessive arm and shoulder movement.
    The correct/efficient way to do FH stroke is have your elbow relatively fixed next to your body. The forearm swings freely with the body's rotation when the right leg (for right handed players) pushes the hips to provide power for the rotation. This way, the arm, the body, and the legs work cohesively together to complete each FH stroke. Once you master this, you can gradually let your entire arm swing like a whip with body rotation. Your arm and shoulder should be relaxed, because your arm and shoulder aren't the main provider of power for FH stroke.
    If you look at Mizutani's FH stroke, his FH is an extreme opposite example to Harimoto's. Mizutani keeps his elbow too rigidly fixed to the side of his body. He doesn't let his forearm swing freely with body rotation. This rigidity decreases Mizutani's FH power, but increases control, consistency, and recovery speed. This explains why Mizutani can stay in topspin rallies for a long time and get almost any shots back on to the table.
    Harimoto's arm and shoulder don't work together with his legs. His elbow isn't sync'ed to his body rotation. He has too much arm movement. This is why he has slower recovery on FH strokes and more inconsistencies. This is also why Harimoto has to resort to flat hitting more frequently than other players.
    You are welcome on the FH lesson. Much easier said then done though, at least Harimoto couldn't.

    A bit off-topic, but I feel like every other time I see your posts you randomly give tt "lessons" no one asks for, to then proudly say something to the effect of "you are welcome".

    You seem to be fuller of yourself than a rain barrel after a heavy rainstorm.

    Just an observation.

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