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    #1

    How is the women's game different from men?

    I noticed that most women while serving position themselves slightly off center where as a majority of men are on the extreme sides (right or left handed). Also, haven't seen any women serve the reverse pendulum. Why no love for that serve...?.

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    #2
    Look up Doo Hoi Kem and Matilda Ekholm. Hayata has a reverse pendulum serve, but rarely uses it.

    As for the women's game, believe it or not, a technical revolution is going on, thanks in large part to Japan. China actually tried to push forward the 女子打法男性化 but it wasn't really until Japan's resurgence, particularly Hirano, that CNT took it seriously.

    More after the jump, http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum...6-china#975825
    Like I touched on yesterday, we have been talking about the masculinization of the female techniques the past few years. But as of now, it looks like a mere catchphrase rather than practice. It's because we didn't innovate enough, leading to the situation where our players appeared helpless against Hirano, both in game style and in mental aspect, where Hirano placed herself lower than our players.
    More after the jump, https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/for...l=1#post248812
    "We trail Japan in innovation. Losing is no accident. The time has come for women’s table tennis to reform" said Yin Xiao in an interview 2 days ago.

    For those unfamiliar, Yin Xiao is a former CNT coach, LGL, KLH and ZJK were once under his guidance and he helped ZJK get back to the CNT after being sent back to the provincial team.

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    Last edited by zeio; 07-12-2019 at 07:40 AM.

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    #3
    Aside from that, it is more on lo g raklies and shifting positions of the ball for women

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    #4
    I think the men and women game is more similar ro eachother now with the new ball.

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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Lula
    I think the men and women game is more similar ro eachother now with the new ball.
    When I compared games recently it didn't look like that for me. Women play close to the table and it even looks more like a "drive to drive" exchange due to the really short strokes on the top spins. Men are at least one meter further away from the table and all chinese male players play with huge FH swings.
    Quote Originally Posted by stickyball
    It is just the different nature of men and women. Because in general men have more muscle mass they tend to use more strength and power away from the table. Women on the other hand in general play faster and closer to the table. There are variations and scales of this of course but that is just a general idea.
    Men are also taller compared to women. I would also say that women play SLOWER in comparison to men. That is also one of the reasons why they are able to play close to the table. Just imagine somebody like FZD, ML, XX or LJK playing this close to the table and unleashing the full power. (They sometimes do that) Receiving this also close to the table is nearly impossible. You HAVE to get away from the table to even have a chance on receiving the ball.

    Edit: And that might be the reason for not playing something like a pendulum. A serve sets up the entire play of this point. Women want to stick to the table and duke it out. Men try to get in position to loop/counterloop from mid to far distance. You'll have to set this up with your service! I'm right now experimenting with that. I've experienced that with a pendulum serve with pure side or side/top spin, I get really fast into that mid to far distance counter loop rallies. This is also the game I'm more comfortable with and often am able to overpower my opponent with my FH top spin.

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    Last edited by Ingo_Ger; 07-12-2019 at 11:48 AM.

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    #6
    It seems to me serving position is connected to women's preference for backhand serves.

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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by zeio
    Look up Doo Hoi Kem and Matilda Ekholm. Hayata has a reverse pendulum serve, but rarely uses it.

    As for the women's game, believe it or not, a technical revolution is going on, thanks in large part to Japan. China actually tried to push forward the 女子打法男性化 but it wasn't really until Japan's resurgence, particularly Hirano, that CNT took it seriously.

    More after the jump, http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum...6-china#975825


    More after the jump, https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/for...l=1#post248812
    This technical revolution is like what 10 years already?

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    #8
    Taller players can cover their wide forehand side easier, and that simple fact alters many aspects of point construction, starting with the serve, and where a player can safely position themselves. Height also affects how close you can comfortably play.

    I'm sure that doesn't explain everything but it is part of it.

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    #9
    I think men's game have more variations within them, but the younger men players are now playing quite similar to women but with more power and distance.

    Lin Jun-Yu and WCQ is a prime example of this IMO where they avoid pivoting to much on their FH and try to keep a more stable position with fast pace, sacrificing the power a little.

    I think FZD is being forced to play this way, resulting in his recent poor form. Funnily enough due to women trying to keep close to the table, players like Hirano and Ito are using this tactic to overpower their defense in one point instead

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    #10
    I will risk the wrath of the Goon Squad by stating that the ladies wear lipstick.
    President, Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club. Hit us up on TTD or Facebook
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis
    This technical revolution is like what 10 years already?
    No, 3 years at most. The idea was put forward in the early 2000s, but as LGL puts it in the 1st quote, it's "more of a catchphrase."

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    #12
    Do the contrasting styles also result in different footwork? From my very occasional watching of the pros the top women appear to be bouncing more than the men who appear to hit from a more solid base, is that correct? Who should intermediates copy?
    Last edited by KMTT; 07-14-2019 at 04:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KMTT
    Do the contrasting styles also result in different footwork? From my very occasional watching of the pros the top women appear to be bouncing more than the men who appear to hit from a more solid base, is that correct? Who should intermediates copy?
    Depends on style/preference.

    I would say men are BOTH faster and stronger than women. They have more options.

    The women's game is essentially a subset of the men's game. If you remove the parts of the game women can't realistically utilize (and also remove having to worry about your opponent doing it), the women's game is fairly optimised for the available options.

    So the most telling difference, is than men have the power to safely "Loop Kill" the ball given enough time and good positioning. This obviously isn't a sure end to the point even in ideal circumstances, but statistically it puts you in commanding position in the point (or wins it outright) more often than not, and is considered very worthwhile to do.
    Women, who simply don't generally have access to that kind of power, can obviously still play this way, but the balance of risk/reward is far less favourable for them.

    So the men's game is optimised towards finding those opportunities to unleash that full power. They stand further back to give them more time/space to react and swing (and to deal with the higher ball speed/power of the men's game), and they plant their feet more solidly and more frequently to utilise as much of the power available as possible.

    The women's game emphasises more speed, and consistency at that speed. Because they are missing just that level of power, their opponents are going to be able to return that big shot more often. It's less optimal the even bother playing at their full power. They will instead stand closer to cut ball travel distance and open up larger angles.

    If you aren't going to play at full power, you also don't need to be planting your feet that hard. And since the ball travel distance/time is now so short on both sides you need to recover much quicker.

    This results in footwork optimised for speed/recovery rather than transmission of power from the lower body.

    These styles just have different ceilings when you are pushing up against your absolute physical limits, depending on what your actual physical limits are.

    But if you aren't at the elite international level, both styles are perfectly valid for both women and men because you arn't playing anywhere near your physical ceiling anyway.

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    Last edited by Hysteresis; 07-16-2019 at 05:51 AM.

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    #14
    One good example of the different games men and women play, you should watch mix doubles. Usually men tend to have more spin on the ball than women. But from my own experience, women tend to play closer and would use speed more than spin.

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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by zeio
    No, 3 years at most. The idea was put forward in the early 2000s, but as LGL puts it in the 1st quote, it's "more of a catchphrase."
    so to you, the male style in womens TT is no longer than 3 years???

    Guo Yue,
    Li Xiao Xia
    Wang Manyu
    Chen Meng

    I think this style is more about 15 years now, no ways 3....
    This catchphase 女子打法男性化 has been around for a long time
    Last edited by Tony's Table Tennis; 07-16-2019 at 09:14 AM.
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    #16
    Seriously, check out the links in my 1st post. I'm not fond of re-posting everything I've written over the years. Read it over before jumping the gun.

    That quote is from LGL himself in the post-match interview after Hirano won the ATTC 2017. Go figure yourself.
    Last edited by zeio; 07-16-2019 at 09:32 AM.

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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by zeio
    Seriously, check out the links in my 1st post. I'm not fond of re-posting everything I've written over the years. Read it over before jumping the gun.

    That quote is from LGL himself in the post-match interview after Hirano won the ATTC 2017. Go figure yourself.
    I don't have time to dig in forums like you.
    You have too much time on your hand and you think everyone should be the same
    I spend more times on the table tennis table then on a table tennis forum. I hope you do the same too

    any ways, from what I recall LGL only talked about style improvements.
    the male style has been around for more than 1 decade.
    If the style is not perfect, you cannot discredit its non existence.
    Guo Yue and LXX who has both retired has been using such style to much success.
    If the style needs upgrading, it is normal - but such style has been around for more than 3 years.
    It is not new as what you are saying in this thread.

    Maybe we should agree to disagree, but this catch phrase has been around for a long time and when my coaching stint started in 2012, I have been using it in my coaching on selective female players. Courtesy of my knowledge and intel coming from the CNT and some provincial teams
    So to other forum members, this isn't new!
    Last edited by Tony's Table Tennis; 07-16-2019 at 10:20 AM.
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    #18
    And I don't have time to argue away like you.

    With all due respect, you sound like Jiang Jialiang when he commentates, void of anything tactical, full of cliché, biased AF, and worst of all, so out of touch.

    And yes, I spend plenty of time with my club mates, many of whom are division A, B and C players, some of whom are also certified coaches. Just so you know, pulling ranks on the forum in this day and age won't get you far. Here I have direct quotes from LGL, Yin Xiao and Li Sun.

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    #19
    Isnt it all relative when we speak of power?. Some of you have mentioned that women lack the strength and power to play away from the table. If the men play from 2 meters away, women could definitely play from 1 i.e adjust the distance based on the strength and speed.

    As for speed, during the China open they were measuring the spin rate and smash speed and Mima Ito's was up there with the men's and even faster that a lot of their smashes. To me its the positioning combined with the strength that makes a smash effective....so power is not the only variable.

    Maybe the 3rd/4th balls need to be attacked more aggressively by the women like the men instead of them being a precursor to getting into a fast counter pattern. Wouldnt it be advantageous for someone from the JNT etc to pick up this so called "men's" style to throw a spanner in the works of the CNT?
    Last edited by will_999; 07-16-2019 at 05:19 PM.

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by zeio
    And I don't have time to argue away like you.

    With all due respect, you sound like Jiang Jialiang when he commentates, void of anything tactical, full of cliché, biased AF, and worst of all, so out of touch.

    And yes, I spend plenty of time with my club mates, many of whom are division A, B and C players, some of whom are also certified coaches. Just so you know, pulling ranks on the forum in this day and age won't get you far. Here I have direct quotes from LGL, Yin Xiao and Li Sun.
    okay, to make you happy, this style is 3 years old
    gosh, what a whiner

    what I saw 10 years ago was not such style. KLH must be pissed off
    and every sane person on this forum who witness it all got it wrong, because you know how to quote few people, so you are always right

    where is the emoji to claps hands

    so moving on, so who are you?
    you in HK? I know some high level coaches there, what is your name?
    since my name is public, you want to share your name too?
    Last edited by Tony's Table Tennis; 07-16-2019 at 06:03 PM.
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