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    1. Top | #81
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Greg G View Post
      This thread forced me to create an account LOL. I can't believe no one mentioned a more generic name to call this type of 'modern' rubber other than "A non-linear rubber with great catapult." It was driving me nuts!

      I thought people just call it "TENSIONED rubber!"

      Anyhow, it was an interesting read, especially the history that Jimbob provided. I think I read a little bit about that before, possibly in another post of Jimbob's. The argumentative posts from both sides about trademarked names for the different technologies and what they should or shouldn't be called have too much unnecessary drama. I don't think it's that big of a deal that the OP said "tensor" and I understand what he meant, but wouldn't it just be easier to say "tensioned rubber," to avoid any confusion or semantics? I know I've heard other people use this term before. I think it is the ideal generic term everyone is looking for.
      Welcome to the forum.

      there is nothing wrong with people who doesn't know equipment that well (and that is a lot of people out there) to call it what ever they want.

      The problem is OP's rudeness.

      And I'm surprised other than me, no one else thinks a 20USD Mantra is dodgy.
      Last edited by Tony's Table Tennis; 07-21-2019 at 08:50 AM.
      BYE BYE

    2. Top | #82
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by usualsuspect View Post
      This is not the most civilized post, but I kinda agree with Julian's underlying message here.
      If you are having a quick conversation with someone, and you use "tensor" as a stand-in for all post-speed glue era non-tacky rubbers, I think most people would understand you.
      In real life situations, I doubt you would go into such detail about the different German and Japanese rubber manufacturers if you are trying to talk to someone. I mean I like tt well enough to be on this forum, and I skipped 98% of Jimbob's long post.
      I think most tt hobbyists probably only care about rubbers' playing characteristics and prices, not their development history.
      I mean, if you are interested in rubbers' backstory, that's totally cool, but maybe don't try rigorously to correct others who don't really care. Coz it kinda comes off a bit dick-ish... Not trying to be rude, this is just how it seems...
      I guess this is the central point us "laymen" have been trying to carry across to you experts... so far in vein.
      Yep, as I said, if it wasn't for his uncivilized behavouier and rude posts, I would of just ignored him
      I guess you okay with people talking to you very rudely.

    3. Top | #83
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by RidTheKid View Post
      Why don't you all start using H3 and get rid of those tensor-like gimmick rubbers that only carry different names?
      you gotta try my new H3 that is made in Germany, its only 20USD

    4. Top | #84
      yoass is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Gary Buck View Post
      Sorry, but this is not beside the point. The term 'tensor' has more than one meaning: a precise technical meaning--rubbers made by ESN using their own proprietary process, a name protected by law--as well as a more general meaning describing the new modern rubbers. This is a forum intended for serious discussion of table tennis equipment, and in such an place, it is appropriate to use technically correct terminology. To continue your analogy, if you went on a discussion list designed for technical discussion of photocopier design, and referred to a Samsung copier as a xerox, you would be scolded, and probably laughed at. This is exactly what happened here.

      Down at the local club, using 'tensor' as a general term to describe all modern rubbers might be quite appropriate, but in a technical forum, it is important to use technical terms in a precise manner.
      I believe, and I may be wrong, that OP tried to indicate a type of rubbers, used the generic ‘tensor’ to indicate that category, and got criticized for that.

      Understandable, yet when selecting rubbers in a webshop you might see a ‘tensor’ checkmark, making it possible to (de)select rubbers with ‘builtin speedglue effect’. That apparently makes sense and is useful as a selection criterium.

      I read the use of ‘tensor’ in the original question in that light, rather than as a technical expert term used to single out a specific class of ESN-produced rubbers only.

      You’re absolutely right in the strict sense, and even so, it’s the reader’s burden to maximally interpret, even when not all terms are used soundly and properly.

    5. Top | #85
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      I too am of the same opinion that I wanna bunch all of the rubbers with tensor like properties into the term "tensor", because it simplifies what type of rubber we're talking about. It doesn't matter to me who manufactures it, only what characteristics it has. Are we tt players or business owners? I know what I am anyway.

    6. Top | #86
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Airoc View Post
      But when and why did they lose their competitive edge?

      As you will remember, the Tibhar Evolution marketing campaign made the product look like made in Japan, in minute details.

      Some of the first reviews on a German forum read like "Ah, finally a rubber made in Japan, the difference to the ESN bouncy balls is huge."

      Ever since, made in Japan doesn´t stand for any superiority anymore and traditional Japanese brands have rubbers manufactured by ESN to stay competitive, while most German brands have stopped producing rubbers in Japan altogether.
      sorry, missed this post.

      I feel this is a common Japanese problem in all industries that they were strong in before.
      I also feel the lack of marketing is a big issue. But they still make great products

      You highlighted one of the problem - competitive.
      ESN are able to make them cheaper.

    7. Top | #87
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by RidTheKid View Post
      I too am of the same opinion that I wanna bunch all of the rubbers with tensor like properties into the term "tensor", because it simplifies what type of rubber we're talking about. It doesn't matter to me who manufactures it, only what characteristics it has. Are we tt players or business owners? I know what I am anyway.
      My Tesla (made in Sweden) is only 20000 dollars, you want one?

    8. Top | #88
      yoass is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis View Post
      Welcome to the forum.

      there is nothing wrong with people who doesn't know equipment that well (and that is a lot of people out there) to call it what ever they want.

      The problem is OP's rudeness.

      And I'm surprised other than me, no one else thinks a 20USD Mantra is dodgy.
      I agree about arrogance/rudeness of style, and would not trust a $20 Mantra offer either.

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    10. Top | #89
      RidTheKid is offline
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      A Swedish made car? Fork it over!

      Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis View Post
      My Tesla (made in Sweden) is only 20000 dollars, you want one?

    11. Top | #90
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by RidTheKid View Post
      A Swedish made car? Fork it over!
      haha, I just called Swedish as that is where you are from.
      Anyways, you see how easy it is to confuse people
      Imagine if you had believed me, or of my post of the made in Germany H3 for USD20

    12. Top | #91
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      Does it come in pink?

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    14. Top | #92
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      I see the problem you have with the usage of word tensor. But maybe, we could just argue about the quality of mantra and compare it to other rubbers and get rid of this entire problem of misusage of the word. I think mantra in general has a high quality like tenergy, but, as most people wanna make sure to buy tenergy just so they tell the rubber does all the work for me, I can't convince you to buy mantra(I don't think tenergy does it all BTW). All I can tell, is that not being marked as a "tensor" is the main problem of the rubber. Otherwise, it had potential for attracting people.
      I've been playing for about 5 years (3 pure years and 2 years paused for studying) and I was about to become an EJ, untill I realized(or at least, made myself believe) that pro players don't really do a ton of research on equipments like the majority of us do and instead, play what they're used to. So, if mantra does the best for you, you gotta have your mind lost to think of an alternative (unless the problem is the price)

    15. Top | #93
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      Quote Originally Posted by TheKhan123 View Post
      I see the problem you have with the usage of word tensor. But maybe, we could just argue about the quality of mantra and compare it to other rubbers and get rid of this entire problem of misusage of the word. I think mantra in general has a high quality like tenergy, but, as most people wanna make sure to buy tenergy just so they tell the rubber does all the work for me, I can't convince you to buy mantra(I don't think tenergy does it all BTW). All I can tell, is that not being marked as a "tensor" is the main problem of the rubber. Otherwise, it had potential for attracting people.
      I've been playing for about 5 years (3 pure years and 2 years paused for studying) and I was about to become an EJ, untill I realized(or at least, made myself believe) that pro players don't really do a ton of research on equipments like the majority of us do and instead, play what they're used to. So, if mantra does the best for you, you gotta have your mind lost to think of an alternative (unless the problem is the price)
      Are you really confused with the term? I thank some folks for spending extra effort explaining the term origin but I resent their stubbornness telling us not to use it to confuse them.

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    17. Top | #94
      Gary Buck is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Greg G View Post
      This thread forced me to create an account LOL. I can't believe no one mentioned a more generic name to call this type of 'modern' rubber other than "A non-linear rubber with great catapult." It was driving me nuts!

      I thought people just call it "TENSIONED rubber!"
      This is a good suggestion. The term "tensioned rubber" is both generally understandable and technically correct--appropriate for any and all situations.

    18. Top | #95
      tropical is offline
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      You can call it tensioned, tensile, tensor, boosted like rubber, etc. and we will understand what you mean.

    19. Top | #96
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      I didnt read the whole thread but I agree with OP.
      There are 2 types of rubber, chinese tacky rubber and grippy tensor rubber. Those who think otherwise are definitely nerds.

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    21. Top | #97
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      Quote Originally Posted by Hamasaki_Fanz View Post
      I didnt read the whole thread but I agree with OP.
      There are 2 types of rubber, chinese tacky rubber and grippy tensor rubber. Those who think otherwise are definitely nerds.
      yes, but they would take the term as an honour

    22. Top | #98
      yoass is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Hamasaki_Fanz View Post
      I didnt read the whole thread but I agree with OP.
      There are 2 types of rubber, chinese tacky rubber and grippy tensor rubber. Those who think otherwise are definitely nerds.
      How would you place rubbers like Mark V, Sriver, Tackiness C, Tackiness D?

      I’d say: non-tensor, but also non-Chinese.

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    24. Top | #99
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      IMO this is entire Tensor nonsense is similar to online grammar cops hassling people. Sure, it is wrong to use a trademarked term, but come on. Tensor is freely used as a generic term, but only for ESN rubbers.

      Is Rakza 7 a Tensor rubber? It is made by ESN, right? I do not see the word Tensor anywhere to be found on the product or the product packaging. Does the term Tensor only count for rubbers made by ESN that actually have the word Tensor on the rubber or the packaging? This would mean that some rubbers made by ESN should be called "Tensor" and some should not, even if ESN used the same technologies to manufacture them. So, calling Rakza 7 a Tensor is wrong, as it is a "Power Sponge" rubber.

      So, Xiom Vega Pro is a "Tensor" (Tensor logo on packaging and rubber), but Rakza 7 is not (no logo). Both rubbers are made by ESN, both very similar in playing characteristics. I have never seen anyone complain when people use the generic term of "Tensor" when referring to Rakza 7.

      So, it seems to me that the word "Tensor" is ok to use as a generic term for rubbers made by ESN, even those that are not officially "Tensor" rubbers. As long as they are "Tensor" like and made by ESN we are good to go? I think the grammar ( I mean Trademark) cops need to get on the ball and go after the people that call ESN made rubbers Tensor, when they are in fact not officially Tensor rubbers.

      I kind of get the fight, but this thread is now nearly 100 posts long and very few are actually on topic.
      I have only been playing for about a year, so please take that into consideration when considering any advice I try to give you. Thanks.

    25. Top | #100
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      There's one big difference between the ESN rubbers and the Japanese made. The ESN rubbers die quite fast if you put in some serious training hours. You can quite often reboost ESN rubbers but they will never play as new. This is more true for the newer generations like Rasanter and less for the older ones like Fastarc and Rakza 7.

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