Stiga Mantra - possibly the best priced tensor

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To tropical's point, this is a sports forum, not sports equipment manufacturing forum.
I doubt even professional tt players care much about rubbers' naming conventions or origins.
As tt hobbyists, we probably don't need to be so scrupulous about rubber terms.

I certainly appreciate the extra information from all the experts, but I doubt I'll ever need to use them in a conversation.
As far as I know, no players in my club wants to talk about rubber history or origins. Usually, we just talk about stuff like "blah blah rubber is good for FH" or "try X rubber for BH".
 
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Jesus what an A H you are Tony! I don't care what jokes you have been trying to make as I know for sure you are really darn serious in your argument. You sound like this is a trivial matter but in your heart you treat it seriously. Confess it or you are just a liar. So stop pretending like you are above us and laugh at us laymen in table tennis and get into this debate more like an adult.

You, Langel, and some do not get it. You just took an opportunity to label someone rude then asked people to boycott him. What type of person are you?

Some facts on tensor if we want to argue why or why not we can use the term for all tensioned rubbers (so, your example of H3 Hurricane was so completely wrong. If you made a joke on this then I did make a joke to you (but think you don't understand) that I think tensored BTY's Tenergy are much better)


1) From New Latin tensor means “that which stretches” . This means any rubbers that stretch or in tension can inherit the term.
2) In the 1840s it was introduced by William Rowan Hamilton as an algebraic quantity unrelated to the modern notion of tensor. So ESN is NOT the one who came up with it for public usage.
3) Woldemar Voigt (1898) introduced it in mathematics. So ESN is NOT the one who came up with it for public usage, again.
4) The mathematical object is so named because an early application of tensors was the study of materials stretching under tension. So the name tensor can be applied to rubber that streches, and a large number of rubbers in the market are having this characteristics even they are made differently.

I do not see how you guys can force us NOT to use the tensor for what we mean tensioned rubbers. I can understand from ESN standpoint that they do not want people to confuse and competitors to exploit it. But I am not ESN's & you are not ESN's employees/ers. And even if you are you can't stop us using the term. See why you still don't get it? Who the dick do you think you are telling us what to use/eat/do? Stop such funny behavior. I'd respect you if we all believe in what we believe but don't you guys think you are going a bit too far?
 
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This topic is never getting to an end. Everybody fundamentally agrees on what is what, just not on what is more important and that's unlikely to change. Maybe leave it at that?

I agree this is the problem.
There is so much problem in the fundamental mindsets of people in table tennis.
I guess it will be forever basement pong or garage pong if serious members have such weak mentality too.

I would have believed regular forummers here are a level or two or three higher in terms of TT knowledge (general) compared to your club members who really knows nothing and your garage/basement players.

I am very wrong and the just don't care attitude is more damaging than wrong information shared. Not being political - but how many clowns we have in political posts who have the don't care attitude when sharing wrong information? I equally see no hope in such organisation.

If I was go to any other sporting or field specialized forum, I'm sure the standard of accuracy as well as the attitude to accuracy is higher. It could just be TT is so low on the level of importance, so it leads to such low quality priority?

Summary of this threads inaccuracy:
1) 20USD rubber is normal or dodgy price? - 2 people mentioned it only...... this is shocking
2) Tensors is not made in Japan, Japan and German rubber are still very different and has been for a long time. How many people mentioned this?
3) Naming/marketing issue

While some people argue about point 3, i'm am on point 1 and 2 most of the time.
But some just don't care of any or all of them

No hope here.

If TT was a higher prioritized category in life, maybe we will get a higher standard too.
TT people might see those as nerds, while maybe those people see it as normal and a minimal standard. You just can't compare if you are talking with people from different levels or class. TT still has a long way to go.....
 
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I agree this is the problem.

No hope here.

If TT was a higher prioritized category in life, maybe we will get a higher standard too.
TT people might see those as nerds, while maybe those people see it as normal and a minimal standard. You just can't compare if you are talking with people from different levels or class. TT still has a long way to go.....

Hey Tony, I really don't understand your hopelessness here.
Like I said earlier, interest in a sport doesn't automatically equate to interest in said sport's equipment manufacturing details.
Most profession tt players don't even care about what term they use for tensioned/tensor rubbers.
Are you saying FZD or ML places table tennis as a low priority in their lives?
All I'm saying is that I can love tt as a sport without being interested in how tt rubbers are named or made.

When it comes to table tennis techniques and players, I strive to find the last iota of information I can and study it.
But this same passion does not translate to my interest in tt rubbers' naming convention or development history.

I watch pros play table tennis because of their amazing skills and their passion for the sport, not to see them accurately talk about tt rubbers and how the rubbers are made.

So I think there is hope for table tennis yet! (at least IMHO)
 
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I agree this is the problem.
There is so much problem in the fundamental mindsets of people in table tennis.
I guess it will be forever basement pong or garage pong if serious members have such weak mentality too.

I would have believed regular forummers here are a level or two or three higher in terms of TT knowledge (general) compared to your club members who really knows nothing and your garage/basement players.

I am very wrong and the just don't care attitude is more damaging than wrong information shared. Not being political - but how many clowns we have in political posts who have the don't care attitude when sharing wrong information? I equally see no hope in such organisation.

If I was go to any other sporting or field specialized forum, I'm sure the standard of accuracy as well as the attitude to accuracy is higher. It could just be TT is so low on the level of importance, so it leads to such low quality priority?

Summary of this threads inaccuracy:
1) 20USD rubber is normal or dodgy price? - 2 people mentioned it only...... this is shocking
2) Tensors is not made in Japan, Japan and German rubber are still very different and has been for a long time. How many people mentioned this?
3) Naming/marketing issue

While some people argue about point 3, i'm am on point 1 and 2 most of the time.
But some just don't care of any or all of them

No hope here.

If TT was a higher prioritized category in life, maybe we will get a higher standard too.
TT people might see those as nerds, while maybe those people see it as normal and a minimal standard. You just can't compare if you are talking with people from different levels or class. TT still has a long way to go.....
I grew up in an environment of motorcycle nerds (not what you usually associate with black jackets) and you'd routinely discuss the adequate brand of exhaust pipes for a 1974 model so and so, or for us teenagers the merits of this or that variation of a run-of-the-mill Italian moped engine. Based on objective (put that word in bold italics, but I'm on my phone) factors. I didn't want to feed the debate too much but I'm with you in that for me, things only get really interesting if we can get the foundations straight and get a meaningful conversation from there, in as much detail as you like.

Then again, you have to understand this is a public place and as such either the lingo derails wayward, the way you see it, or in some cases as in all human language - we simplify. Which faster way do you have to say either-German-or-Japanese--in some cases, why not Chinese or else--made-rubber and whose sponge-and-rubber-combination-as-well-as-manufacturing-process offer out of the norm spin and speed capabilities given minimal input?
 
How would you place rubbers like Mark V, Sriver, Tackiness C, Tackiness D?

I’d say: non-tensor, but also non-Chinese.

uhh, I was referring to the general modern offensive rubber. I also like to add there's this new hybrid spring sponge + chinese tacky topsheet.

For the rubbers you mentioned, I'd categorize them in the cup/plate placemat rubber. [SUP]Cuz that's what the rubber good for.[/SUP]
 
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First of all, calling rubbers that are made in Germany ESN rubbers is much easier. I seldom use the word tensor since it only appears in some esn rubbers but not all of them. I can cite at least almost a dozen but they still play like tensor marked rubbers. There is nothing wrong with correctly calling a product by what it really represents or where it was made because when you are suggesting a certain rubber and then include a known rubber that was not made by ESN creates confusion. You may or may not like being corrected by the terminologies but it is what it is.
 
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Entertaining. I think all that was needed was a table tennis physicist like Pnatchtwey to explain that these rubbers are not tensioned or pretensioned and that the real term people are looking for is: ELASTIC. If the rubbers had been put on tension they would be visibly stretched, or curled. :)

Okay, don't go there. I am just joking.

For me, I like and use the term NextLevel referred to:

I usually call them "speed glue effect rubbers" and I get the whole debate and believe the rudeness drove it.

That sidesteps the whole issue of the distinction between tension and a more elastic rubber compound that will spring back faster when the ball stretches the rubber on contact. Or of one brand or another. Rubbers that are trying to create a similar effect to what Speed Glue used to create is what is being referred to.

However, on the debate that has raged on between the people who say "Tensor" can refer to all rubbers that are trying to create a "Speed Glue Effect" and the people who say "Tensor" can only refer to the rubbers trademarked and made by ESN, well....I think there are points on both sides.

HOWEVER, my problem with all of what I read is that I saw rudeness on both sides of the argument. Not from everyone. There were a few who were trying not to escalate tensions between members. I am not going to call out members. But there were people making personal attacks on both sides of that argument.

AND I AM GOING TO SAY, THAT NEEDS TO STOP.
 
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Speed glue effect rubbers, while accurate, sounds so tired. While 'tensor' has much more boom to it.

Like 'Tensor', there are certain adjectives that have that boom effect on people. For instance, sportscar originally referred to cut-down 2-door, roofless cars that were faster than the norm. These days even some 4 door sedans are termed a sportscar or 'sporty' car by the marketeers.

I have noticed a recent trend that Darts, chess and all them video games are called sports. Is this right?
 
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You can buy in confidence from Amazon. The sellers are either established TT shops or sold directly by Amazon. Their customer service is also great.
Julian

Well... Amazon has great customer service, but I wouldn't recommend buying DHS products on Amazon...
There are too many fake DHS stuff on Amazon. I've bought a fake DHS pre-made racket on Amazon before, it was also fulfilled by Amazon.
I don't think Amazon checks for authenticity of tt products. Any vendor could send products to Amazon to be warehoused and shipped, as long as the product matches the pictures and descriptions on the website. Really genuine looking fake DHS product can easily make it on to Amazon.
 
I agree this is the problem.
I would have believed regular forummers here are a level or two or three higher in terms of TT knowledge (general) compared to your club members who really knows nothing and your garage/basement players.

I just watched the video review of Stiga Genesis and Dan is calling it a tensor[emoji846] I think you have a duty to correct him, to tell him how wrong he is, how he is corrupting young minds and that he will never amount to anything more than a basement player. Please please repeat all those things to the founder of TTD, I would love to see it!


Julian
 
I just watched the video review of Stiga Genesis and Dan is calling it a tensor[emoji846] I think you have a duty to correct him, to tell him how wrong he is, how he is corrupting young minds and that he will never amount to anything more than a basement player. Please please repeat all those things to the founder of TTD, I would love to see it!


Julian


Can you please tell us where exactly in the video Dan is calling it a Tensor?

What I hear from 2:08 to 2:14 is:

"The Genesis is a responsive rubber. However not so responsive as a traditional Tensor type rubber."

 
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