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  1. Ilcane1 is offline
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    #1

    BH differences

    Hi there.. in these last days I'm trying to develop my bh shots, starting from the serve receiving to the bh topspin (vs backspin the biggest problem). But i have some doubts:
    Which are the differences between a bh topspin and a service receipt (as banana flicks)? I mean: if the ball doesn't bounce off the table, is the swing made only by wirst? I know that the bat swing has to start with the top of the bat pointing to my body in both cases, so i can't understand if and how to fix my elbow as a pivot. Thank you for your suggestion.
    Last edited by Ilcane1; 07-23-2019 at 12:21 PM.

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    #2
    Hi, the swings are from the principle same/similar. Both shots needs the pivot on the elbow. For the topspin (ball outgoing of the table) you have more space to launch the arm and so the stroke, and you have the possibility to use also as pivot the shoulder (longer stroke). In case of flick the stroke is short(er) and mostly done by forearm and wrist. The movement, in my opinion, just as stroke, is not difficult. Difficult is to find the starting time in order to find the ball on the highest point.
    Using multiball training you can find the right time.
    Not easy to do in matches due to the fear to lose the point, but, if don't try, you never will be able to use it!

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    #3
    I agree with Bear's description. Try to relax your hand and wrist, pivot from your elbow (you really only use wrist for adjusting racket angle, not for power). Timing is very important for BH topspin, try to take the ball either before or at the highest point.
    If you are just starting to develop your BH topspin, I recommend you start with learning BH blocking.
    BH topspin is basically just BH blocking plus a little brushing and hitting.
    Once you are very comfortable blocking most incoming topspin shots, you will naturally start to put more power behind your blocks and turn it into BH loops or drives.
    Anyways, these are some tips I got from a Chinese coach in my local club. They really helped me with my BH topspin. I hope they can help you too.

    With BH flicks, I pivot from my shoulder and rotate my entire arm to generate power. I tend to not use wrist for power in BH flicks. Some players in my club can use a lot power from their wrist in BH flicks and their shots are very powerful. I cannot do that yet. I relax my wrist and keep it fixed for extra control. My elbow and back also provide some power for the flick. My BH flicks are consistent and spinny, but not powerful.

    These are just my experience as an amateur, I'm sure others will have better tips for you.

  4. Ilcane1 is offline
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    #4
    I see my strokes going out of the table because i put too much power on flicks, so i'd like to know if its only a wrist swing. When i try to go with less power i send the ball in the net (vs backspin serve mostly)

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    #5
    About timing.. my coach tells me to wait for the ball, i'm often too much fast and hit the ball too soon. With my fh loop i'm improving, and i'm more consistent i hit after the pick of the bounce (vs backspin balls, but also vs blocks), so i'm right or not?

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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilcane1
    About timing.. my coach tells me to wait for the ball, i'm often too much fast and hit the ball too soon. With my fh loop i'm improving, and i'm more consistent i hit after the pick of the bounce (vs backspin balls, but also vs blocks), so i'm right or not?
    Almost everyone ideally hits after the peak of the bounce but the stuff almost everyone says will make you think otherwise.

    The Following User Likes NextLevel's Post:

    thomas.pong

    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilcane1
    I see my strokes going out of the table because i put too much power on flicks, so i'd like to know if its only a wrist swing. When i try to go with less power i send the ball in the net (vs backspin serve mostly)
    Contact point, swing trajectory and quality of the backswing to create racket head speed. There is a good backhand flick video with Fan Zhendong that shows how you need to use the arm. You need to throw the body upward and backwards. If I find the video I will post it.

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    thomas.pong

    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

  8. NextLevel is offline
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    #8

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    thomas.pong

    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

  9. usualsuspect is offline
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilcane1
    I see my strokes going out of the table because i put too much power on flicks, so i'd like to know if its only a wrist swing. When i try to go with less power i send the ball in the net (vs backspin serve mostly)
    For flicks, it's all about precise control of power and racket angle. You need to adjust both based on the length and spin of the serve.
    If your flick goes long, it could be you used too much power or your racket angle was too open. If it hits the net, you might need to use less power or close your racket some more.

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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilcane1
    About timing.. my coach tells me to wait for the ball, i'm often too much fast and hit the ball too soon. With my fh loop i'm improving, and i'm more consistent i hit after the pick of the bounce (vs backspin balls, but also vs blocks), so i'm right or not?
    It depends if you are looping or driving. If you are driving or blocking, you want to hit the ball before or at the peak. If you are doing BH looping, then you want to wait until after the ball is at peak or after.
    The same principle applies to both FH and BH loop and drive techniques.

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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel
    Almost everyone ideally hits after the peak of the bounce but the stuff almost everyone says will make you think otherwise.
    Sigh... I'd have a little bit of respect for you if you even slightly know what you are talking about.
    If you are ignorant of the most basic tt techniques, at least try not to spread misinformation.
    Are you really a good friend with a great Chinese coach? Somehow, everything you say makes me doubt that...

    Your comment doesn't help the OP, only serves to confuse him.
    Don't worry, at least I've clarified it for him.

  12. usualsuspect is offline
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    #12
    Here is a video to help you with BH topspin.
    The coach in the video is Li Sun, a coach on the Chinese National Team. He coached players like Li Xiaoxia, Zhang Yining, and now coaches Sun Yingsha.
    According to him, BH topspin is mostly flat hit, no need to brush up that much, and don't imitate professional players like ZJK or FZD (it is pointless).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjkY...annel=GnoPGniP

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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by usualsuspect
    Sigh... I'd have a little bit of respect for you if you even slightly know what you are talking about.
    If you are ignorant of the most basic tt techniques, at least try not to spread misinformation.
    Are you really a good friend with a great Chinese coach? Somehow, everything you say makes me doubt that...

    Your comment doesn't help the OP, only serves to confuse him.
    Don't worry, at least I've clarified it for him.
    Did the OP ask about blocking?

    It is getting tiring debating with a faceless and rude person when I am a public personality who is not hiding anything. I never said I know a great Chinese coach, though I suspect there are some people who believe that only Chinese coaches understand technique. The backhand topspin is one of my favorite strokes and most coaches tell me i have a strong backhand. I usually can communicate what I understand about it competently. No point debating someone who will never show people his backhand yet will be arrogant about it.

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    Last edited by NextLevel; 07-23-2019 at 07:24 PM.
    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

  14. usualsuspect is offline
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel
    Did the OP ask about blocking?

    It is getting tiring debating with a faceless and rude person when I am a public personality who is not hiding anything. I never said I know a great Chinese coach, though I suspect there are some people who believe that only Chinese coaches understand technique. The backhand topspin is one of my favorite strokes and most coaches tell me i have a strong backhand. I usually can communicate what I understand about it competently. No point debating someone who will never show people his backhand yet will be arrogant about it.
    If you are sharing good information, I wouldn't be arguing with you.
    The fact is: you share bad information and refuse to acknowledge it or learn from it.
    Instead, you just double down and argue more.

    As a public personality, you should be extra mindful about what you put into the public space.
    Firing off half-baked opinions is easy; doing actual research and learning is much harder.
    I hope you keep this in mind next time you want to make a public comment (just ask yourself, "am I absolutely sure I'm right about this?" If the answer isn't a firm "yes", then you probably should do some research before responding).

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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by usualsuspect
    If you are sharing good information, I wouldn't be arguing with you.
    The fact is: you share bad information and refuse to acknowledge it or learn from it.
    Instead, you just double down and argue more.

    As a public personality, you should be extra mindful about what you put into the public space.
    Firing off half-baked opinions is easy; doing actual research and learning is much harder.
    I hope you keep this in mind next time you want to make a public comment (just ask yourself, "am I absolutely sure I'm right about this?" If the answer isn't a firm "yes", then you probably should do some research before responding).
    Did the OP ask about blocking? If you answer that question, we can go from there.
    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

  16. usualsuspect is offline
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel
    Did the OP ask about blocking? If you answer that question, we can go from there.
    Again, you are purposefully focusing on semantics rather than the substance.
    You want to win the argument with me more than you want to help OP.

    He did not ask about BH blocking, but I was trying to help him.
    I've been trying to help OP.

    He is trying to learn BH flicks before having mastered BH blocking.
    You think that's a good idea? No, you probably don't care. At least, I don't see you try to help him with good information.
    Most of your posts on this thread are just petty comments aimed at me. Why are you doing this?

    Our goal should be helping the OP.
    Be a man, have a bigger heart. If you are wrong, admit it and move on. It won't be the end of the world, I promise you.

  17. NextLevel is offline
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by usualsuspect
    Again, you are purposefully focusing on semantics rather than the substance.
    You want to win the argument with me more than you want to help OP.

    He did not ask about BH blocking, but I was trying to help him.
    I've been trying to help OP.

    He is trying to learn BH flicks before having mastered BH blocking.
    You think that's a good idea? No, you probably don't care. At least, I don't see you try to help him with good information.
    Most of your posts on this thread are just petty comments aimed at me. Why are you doing this?

    Our goal should be helping the OP.
    Be a man, have a bigger heart. If you are wrong, admit it and move on. It won't be the end of the world, I promise you.
    Thanks for the response. Now I know you are trolling and will ignore you as such. Cheers!
    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

  18. Ilcane1 is offline
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    #18
    Hey guys keep calm!!
    Last edited by Ilcane1; 07-23-2019 at 08:24 PM.

  19. usualsuspect is offline
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    #19
    If you can already block very well, that's great!
    If you want a more consistent BH flick, I recommend relaxing your hand and wrist more.
    Don't use too much power in the beginning and keep an open racket angle.
    Like Bear said, pivot from your elbow. You'll be surprised at how little power you need to do a BH flick.
    My BH flick is similar to Ma Long's, but I don't bend my back backwards (because I'm clearly not as good as Ma Long).

    Like I said before, my BH flick is spinny and consistent, but not powerful, because I don't know how to use power from my wrist and back yet. I hope you figure it out.

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    #20
    Bh power comes mainly from legs and abdomen.

    Quote Originally Posted by usualsuspect
    If you can already block very well, that's great!
    If you want a more consistent BH flick, I recommend relaxing your hand and wrist more.
    Don't use too much power in the beginning and keep an open racket angle.
    Like Bear said, pivot from your elbow. You'll be surprised at how little power you need to do a BH flick.
    My BH flick is similar to Ma Long's, but I don't bend my back backwards (because I'm clearly not as good as Ma Long).

    Like I said before, my BH flick is spinny and consistent, but not powerful, because I don't know how to use power from my wrist and back yet. I hope you figure it out.

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