Choice between Mantra M, Genesis 1S or Genesis 2S ?

Wister · Jul 23, 2019

Hello,

I’m looking for a replacement for my Mantra S on my FH, especially I’d like something a bit harder, feeling wise

I’ve seen Mantra M, Genesis 1 S and Genesis 2 S but I’m not sure which one is better for me

I’m not really looking for more speed as I find mantra S good enough here. Especially I’m wondering if mantra M won’t be too difficult to play for me ? I’m around 800 points in France, I think it is equivalent to more or less 1400 USATT

Maybe genesis can be good also because I like to have good consistency (so good control) and to play with spin. But I don’t know which one to choose between genesis 1 and 2 ? I played a few month with H3N commercial but it was a bit too difficult for me

Thanks a lot for your advices

Ivan10edgardo · Jul 23, 2019

I recommend you much more Mantra M

Tony's Table Tennis · Jul 23, 2019

+1 on Mantra M
Genesis is a total different rubber - more chinese style
of you comfortable with Mantra S and want a harder sponge, Mantra M is just that.

Wister · Jul 24, 2019

Thanks for you answers, and yes i really like mantra S

I wasn't sure about the hardness of Mantra M so i finally directly asked to Stiga (wasn't sure to get an answer

). They said it is near 48° so it might be a lot faster than Mantra S i guess. I was more looking for something like 45° but maybe i will just wait to get a little bit better before changing

Do you think it can be useful to use some time 45° (like a year) or going from 43° to 48° can be OK ?

Tony's Table Tennis · Jul 24, 2019

I think 5 degree jump is not too much
you can only know once you tried it out.

45 and 43 is maybe too similar for you to really notice a difference

JulianTT · Jul 24, 2019

The degrees of hardness won't tell you much if anything about how a rubber plays, which is what you really care about.

My view is that Mantra M is quite a different beast: bouncy/fast, and you will likely lose some control, which is not a trade-off you seem to be willing to make.

Julian

lasta · Jul 24, 2019

+2 on the Mantra M, if anything I feel harder rubbers are more linear and predictable thus better control. It will also be the least change from your current set up.

Tony's Table Tennis · Jul 24, 2019

lasta said:
+2 on the Mantra M, if anything I feel harder rubbers are more linear and predictable thus better control. It will also be the least change from your current set up.

yes and no
The harder sponge does make it more linear (lower arc), however I would say it is more difficult to control
higher arc is more easier to control and this is your softer sponges generally.

lasta · Jul 24, 2019

Tony's Table Tennis said:
yes and no
The harder sponge does make it more linear (lower arc), however I would say it is more difficult to control
higher arc is more easier to control and this is your softer sponges generally.

Don't mean to start an argument, but I find all else being equal, a harder rubber has a higher throw angle and potential for higher arc (more spin on a proper brush stroke). With softer rubbers a lot of the energy is dissipated tangentially.

BTW when I said linear, I meant the speed response. Power in = power out, not the flight path.

Tony's Table Tennis · Jul 24, 2019

lasta said:
Don't mean to start an argument, but I find all else being equal, a harder rubber has a higher throw angle and potential for higher arc (more spin on a proper brush stroke). With softer rubbers a lot of the energy is dissipated tangentially.

BTW when I said linear, I meant the speed response. Power in = power out, not the flight path.

here is a nice charts by my friends at Gewo
Showing you how a different sponge hardness does different things to the ball
Hype EL topsheet is all the same

lasta · Jul 25, 2019

And here is an independent test of all Xiom Vega rubbers. Vega Pro being the hardest, has the highest arc.

yoass · Jul 25, 2019

lasta said:
And here is an independent test of all Xiom Vega rubbers. Vega Pro being the hardest, has the highest arc.

The Gewo Hype and Xiom Vega comparitive trajectory charts look contradictory.

The Gewo charts show flatter curves for harder sponges (mostly, that is). The Xiom charts shows wider curves for harder sponges.

Are both valid, and is this a different topsheet working very differently?

Tony's Table Tennis · Jul 25, 2019

Vega Pro is so much higher arc than Vega Euro?

I'm sorry, but over 50% of my students uses Xiom Vega rubbers, who ever made that chart is very wrong

unless one stroke the angle is totally open, and the other the angle is totally close?

And Vega Pro is no where the hardest in there - again wrong information - Vega China is the hardest. Vega Asia is also harder than Pro. Vega Asia DF is softer than Pro

yogi_bear · Jul 25, 2019

Hardness nowadays is not a major contributing factor to the arc. There are hard rubbers that have high throw yet also there are hard rubbers that have low throw.

Tony's Table Tennis · Jul 25, 2019

yoass said:
The Gewo Hype and Xiom Vega comparitive trajectory charts look contradictory.

The Gewo charts show flatter curves for harder sponges (mostly, that is). The Xiom charts shows wider curves for harder sponges.

Are both valid, and is this a different topsheet working very differently?

Yes,
why I use Gewo is, the hype el is all the same topsheet, while Xiom are all different.
you can see this by the ITTF ID no or physically compare the edges of the rubber

Tony's Table Tennis · Jul 25, 2019

based on this chart, i'm supprised Vega Japan is so "weak"

Tony's Table Tennis · Jul 25, 2019

yogi_bear said:
Hardness nowadays is not a major contributing factor to the arc. There are hard rubbers that have high throw yet also there are hard rubbers that have low throw.

Correct.

yoass · Jul 25, 2019

yogi_bear said:
Hardness nowadays is not a major contributing factor to the arc. There are hard rubbers that have high throw yet also there are hard rubbers that have low throw.

There’s the exit angle, the exit velocity, and the rotation (and the related coriolis force bending the curve), and there are the air and table friction coefficients and the table rebound factor. What else is there?

Rotation has to do with perpendicular force applied, transferred to a particular degree depending on surface friction. The angle of contact matters, as of course the Y component of the hitting vector (yes folks, this is actually an application of tensor arithmetic), with the X component determining velocity. Sponge hardness influences energy absorption/return during impact.

It shouldn’t be that hard to model this dynamic behaviour, fixing all variables except one. If only for thar stifling heat… anybody been doing dynamic physics recently?

Tony's Table Tennis · Jul 25, 2019

anyways, OP mentioned 3 rubbers
2 of which is a big no based on his experience with DHS
he wants something harder than S, so Mantra M is just that

I do think this is a super straight forward and easy answer

Wister · Jul 25, 2019

Thanks for every response, very helpful

Yes indeed Mantra M looks good but i'm a bit bothered by the hardness as it is 48° and i was hoping for 45/46°.

In a way i'm very satisfied with my Mantra S but I've heard it's interesting to play with hard rubber as it allow to use a more 'correct' technique (more brush and acceleration ?). I think i take this from emratthich that advices often hard rubbers

What i'm expecting to get
- Less bouncy, especially maybe for short push
- Better block and less spin sensitive (as the ball get less into the sponge ?)
- Better spin when in good position
- Somewhat more suited for brushing loop ?
- Less control due to more speed
- Less control due to harder to engage the sponge

I know i should just try but it's around 100€ for 2 sheets (FH / BH)

Not sure if i'm good enough to test it now and if the advantage are worth it ? And also if i should find an intermediate step for like a year around 45°

Choice between Mantra M, Genesis 1S or Genesis 2S ?

Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

This user has been banned.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Similar threads