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  1. MOG is offline
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    #1

    Backhand service return %

    So on Sunday I played 3 players in a group of 4 who all should beat me on paper at a tournament.

    The first player I returned 11 out of 17 serves to my backhand successfully.

    The second player I returned 12 out of 19 serves to my backhand successfully.

    The third player I returned 15 out of 24 serves to my backhand successfully.

    I did not win all these points when I returned successfully.

    It feels to me like this is a really low percentage and I will never have a chance if I can't even return a few more of these serves.

    What percentage in table tennis should we be aiming at realistically for at least returning serve?
    Last edited by MOG; 07-23-2019 at 11:09 PM.

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    #2
    Quote Originally Posted by MOG
    So on Sunday I played 3 players in a group of 4 who all should beat me on paper at a tournament.

    The first player I returned 11 out of 17 serves to my backhand successfully.

    The second player I returned 12 out of 19 serves to my backhand successfully.

    The third player I returned 15 out of 24 serves to my backhand successfully.

    I did not win all these points when I returned successfully.

    It feels to me like this is a really low percentage and I will never have a chance if I can't even return a few more of these serves.

    What percentage in table tennis should we be aiming at realistically for at least returning serve?
    Hi mog, my two cents, first of all, we need to know what's your setup, if I'm not wrong you're using a Yinhe m202 with a Chinese tacky rubber on FH and a TSP Spectol BH right? Is this actually your setup or did you change it?
    Second, it will be better if you upload a footage about those rallies because, not all serves are same, and it's not adequate the same stroke for an inverted than a SP, so we can assume you could have a reading serves issue, and a stance issue too.

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  3. Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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    #3
    Well at all levels receive is a problem. I don’t know your level

    Do all serves to your BH cause you problems ? Both short and long ? All kind of spins backspin topspin or knuckle ?

    When training, if you’re told in advance what kind of serve is coming is your percentage much higher ? in which case it’s about reading the serve. If even when you know what’s coming your percentage is low then your technique is wrong

  4. tabletennislover99 is offline
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    #4
    You will recive better if you analyse just the point when your opponent touch the ball and how he touches it. Not the movements before the service. If you can predict well the speed and the spin of the ball you solved the service.

  5. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by dominus7
    Hi mog, my two cents, first of all, we need to know what's your setup, if I'm not wrong you're using a Yinhe m202 with a Chinese tacky rubber on FH and a TSP Spectol BH right? Is this actually your setup or did you change it?
    Second, it will be better if you upload a footage about those rallies because, not all serves are same, and it's not adequate the same stroke for an inverted than a SP, so we can assume you could have a reading serves issue, and a stance issue too.
    Dominus, MOG has posted lots of video. MOG has given plenty of info about all his setup changes. He is not asking the question you are trying to answer.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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  6. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    #6
    I don't really understand the question in the OP....
    BYE BYE

  7. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #7
    MOG, you have to just keep practicing returning serves. Have you been practicing that? In training (not in matches)? You still would help yourself if you did a few sessions with a coach on nothing but return of serve. We already know, some of it is your feet and that they get stuck to the ground on return of serve because you do not move when the opponent tosses.

    Watch top pros. The start moving when the opponent tosses the ball. The go from very low to higher and move in as the ball is being tossed. The advantage of that is, you and your feet are moving before the ball is served so it is much easier to move TO THE BALL instead of reaching which is what you often do with your BH when the ball is not served right to you. You are not alone.

    You also take too big a swing while not being in the right position to return the serve. Without finding ways to train the skills you need to improve this, playing matches will just continue to cement the habits you have to move your racket out or towards you switching point and try to swing big with bad mechanics since your arm is not in the right position to take your optimal stroke.

    Particularly when you move the racket towards your switching point without moving your feet, the blade face has an odd angle that makes your ball go more out and more down than you calculate.

    When you are in position to take the ball, your return of serve is much better. So, as I have seen it from footage you have posted in various threads, a large part of the issue is with your feet.

    The other part of the issue is this: When you return serve, you want a short, fast, compact stroke that is relaxed. Particularly when your feet are not in position when you are returning serves, you take a fairly large, sort of slow, very tense stroke. Sometimes it works. But it is not really what you want. Strokes on serves are often more effective if they are relaxed and compact. A small movement that is whippy for the spin to overcome the incoming spin and a nice arc so the ball can go over the net easily and land on the other side. Spin over speed.

    At least, as I see it, working on that, for you, would help you.

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    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
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  8. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis
    I don't really understand the question in the OP....
    This is actually a good point. Perhaps I understand the question because MOG has asked it before in other threads.

    MOG, it would actually be good for Tony to see some footage of you return serves in a match situation. He is a coach and he could really help you on this subject.

    But I do think you need to do a certain amount of training for this which means, not matches.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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  9. Lula is offline
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    #9
    If they are much better than you it is hard to return well. Even if you put the ball on the table the return might not be good enough so they still win. Do not if this should be considered successfull.

    If you Do not practice against better players that for the most part also have better serves it is hard to return then well in a game.

    So the Secret in my book is to play as many games as you can against different opponents. By doing this you Will become better at returning serves.

    I also feel that What many people Do wrong is that they Do something inbetween. Really need to try to read the serve than make a decision What to Do and go for it. Better to Do this and put the ball two tables away. When you start to hesitate you Will Do something inbetween and now you Will really loose.

    Also important to not make the same mistake again. So if returning the serve Did not work well that way you need to try other. Especially in training. Use rhe imagination. Flip, push, go with or against the spin, fh and bh. If you Do this you Will learn different ways to return that work against different serves.

    If i coaches you and saw that you missed alot of returns i would proably want you to try to return a serve differently and if We have bad returning in backhand overall i think i would want you to try to return with the forehand instead.

    But i think for you it is most likely that you need to play against more players so you can get to train returning against alot of serves and also players that are better you that have really good serves. I believe this because you have short pimple in the backhand some think the returning would go well. So you proably just lack the experience. .

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    #10

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  11. dominus7 is offline
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Dominus, MOG has posted lots of video. MOG has given plenty of info about all his setup changes. He is not asking the question you are trying to answer.
    Even if he have posted a lots of videos, doesn't mean he got stucked, all of us grow up, so, I ask just for make sure if he didn't change the setup, I have had the same issue, and it occurs more often when I change setup, till get used to it. And not all people know MOG and his setup, so if he have more answers, would be good specify just a couple things.
    By the way the stance plays a role about returning, because if he isn't waiting in the right timing and in the right place, it will be difficult not only for him, but everyone.

  12. MOG is offline
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    #12
    As always some great advice!!

    I think I was asking if my terrible return percentage was affecting my results, which it clearly is.

    On the same day I beat a much stronger opponent in the morning I returned every serve to my bh in all 3 sets.
    I am trying to attack all serves to my bh with the short pimples, it can be extremely difficult, I feel like also psychologically it has a massive effect on my game too.

    I will post some serve returns both good and bad from these matches later this evening.

  13. MOG is offline
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    #13
    It tend to be the longer lower ones that cause me trouble, the short ones I am getting better at whacking or touching back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Takkyu_wa_inochi
    Well at all levels receive is a problem. I don’t know your level

    Do all serves to your BH cause you problems ? Both short and long ? All kind of spins backspin topspin or knuckle ?

    When training, if you’re told in advance what kind of serve is coming is your percentage much higher ? in which case it’s about reading the serve. If even when you know what’s coming your percentage is low then your technique is wrong

  14. Der_Echte is offline
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    #14
    Sometimes, it just comes down to seeing the ball all better and being ready. Being low and spread helps.

    Seeing the ball better and having better touch are things you would improve upon as you get to be a better player.

    Having said that, receiving effective professional competent training can improve this area and make a huge impact on your level.

    There are a number of things you can do short term to improve your consistency (and quality a little bit). The two right away are to step close to impact ball near the bounce (for the touch returns) and have a loose grip. You might see the ball better doing that and improve the quality of your return as well, but ultimately, you would need to develop better ball recognition skills to really improve that.

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  15. Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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    #15
    its difficult to tell whats wrong without seeing a video. you should seek advice from a coach or more experienced players

    i am myself, at my level, working on receiving better.

    having a good stance, low on your legs and lowering the upper body will help judging the ball better.

    dont guess the spin from the form of the serve. wait until you see the ball contacting the opponents bat before committing to a receive, else its just poker

    for long serves to the BH, if the ball is topspin its better to take it early but sometimes its difficult

    if its backspin, take a very small step or jump to get a little back from the table, you'll contact the ball at a later timing, it will give you more time to see the trajectory and make it easier to loop/drive the ball back.

    whether the incoming ball is backspin or topspin you should put your own spin when receiving. its important to have a good contact / touch with the ball. its easier to loop with a sponge which is not too hard. stay relaxed.

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    #16
    Instructional video serve return

    https://youtu.be/Tv6eSsZbLe4

  17. MOG is offline
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    #17
    Here is a video of my serve return on Sunday at a tournament.
    All 3 players are higher ranked than me, a fair bit higher, In theory they should always beat me. I have beaten the last opponent once, sometimes i get a set often not.

    I feel like serve return is the biggest difference between us.

    Anyway be interested in why some returns are good and some are bad?

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    #18
    You're waiting the ball a little bit late, when is dropping, try to hit when the ball is highest, stay tips on feet, then you will move faster, sometimes you pop up the ball in 5th ball and gives the opponent chance to kill the ball. This won't fix all, but you can try starting by this, nice game!

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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by tabletennislover99
    You will recive better if you analyse just the point when your opponent touch the ball and how he touches it. Not the movements before the service. If you can predict well the speed and the spin of the ball you solved the service.
    I think you hit the nail on its head. Totally agree with you. This is how I read serves too.
    But I use inverted rubbers on both sides. The OP uses pips on one side. I don't know any receiving techniques with pips.

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    #20
    I really do not know what you are talking about. I am in a bit of hurry so only watched the half of the video. I did not see you miss a single return and i think they were pretty okey. When they serve long to your short pimple and you want to do an opening loop you can not get much better shot. Very very difficult to loop hard with the short pimle, or smash at low balls. Maybe you can accelerate a bit more but i think this will be unsafe. The only thing i see regarding the returns with the backhand is maybe that maybe you can try to keep it a little lower over the net when you do an opening loop. But much more important try to vary the type of return and placement, so they do not know what is coming. You should also try to think what ball you want and what ball they do not want. Use tactics.

    Another thing i noticed is i think you should try to use the body more with the forehand, do not need to do a big stoke just bring the body. Maybe you can think like if you want to pull something big, like a piano on wheels you do not only do this with the arm, you strain with the whole body. Also maybe you can think of a boxer when they hit. Try to think that you want to move your belly with the arm. You will get much more control if you have a little body in the shot, and can also generate more power if you want to.

    good luck.

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